MacGregorSailors.com

Vas,

It’s been two weeks, what did you decide

I have a 50 HP Merc outboard. If I was at just cruising, I'd stick with that - or go down to a 15.9 HP (really all you need - unless you think you might need some extra speed, visit the Caribbean, Bahamas, etc.)

Along with that, if I had an X, ( M shouldn't be too different) I'd have two 6 gallon tanks on each side of the cockpit.

leefrankpierce wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:38 am Thoughts on engine size for a motor cruiser.
I ran my boat with the honda 50 four stroke for a long time, the size upgrade was hoping to get my son into tubing or something outside.
I find my 120hp 2 stroke is not as happy at its minimum speed in the marina as the 50 was slightly throttled up.
Point being, if long term slow cruising is expected (6 mph for hull speed), I would stay with the smaller 4 stroke.
With mine I seem to be either at idle, or needing to get to 10mph to keep the engine happy.
Could be differences between 2 stroke and 4 stroke.
Mine also seems fuel hungry, but then again I never seem to allow it to run at hull speed, just seems unhappy there.

NiceAft wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:52 pm Do not get rid of the centerboard, and do not use the boat without ballast unless you stay very alert to the water you are in.

When a powerboat passes too close, the wake can be extremely troublesome. Even with the ballast in, I steer into wakes at a 90 degree angle. A centerboard is not the same as a keel, and the water ballast isn't effective until some part of the ballast tank is out of the water.

Hi Ray, yes, i decided to not touch the centerboard. Also, I'm thinking to move the fuel tanks lower to improve the balance, if there is a space underneath the boat floor to do that. Not sure it it's doable - I will know that exactly when scrape down the interior of boat completely to see what can be optimized there in terms of center of mass. Some water ballast will be there permanently, as I will need a dedicated water tank for shower and fresh water for 2-3 days cruises.

dlandersson wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:35 am WADR, I don't see this. I'd recommend a"soft" dodger. In nice weather you're not going to want the cockpit enclosed.

vas wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:27 pm Hard top and fully enclosed fiberglass/plexiglass cockpit is one of those. So wet stern seat won't be a problem.

Hi,
It won't be a completely "enclosed" hard top, but the one with ability to open sides and part of the "roof". But more durable, than a typical "soft cover"
Also I'm thinking to install solar panels for the entire roof, maybe flexible ones, they're lighter than thick panels.

ris wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:06 pm We chose a X over a M as we planned to use the boat as a trawler when we bought it. 13,500 miles later still think the X is the way to go for a Mac trawler. When motoring you cannot turn the wheel loose and expect a Mac to go straight if you have taken off the rudders. A wheel pilot will not work as an autopilot if you have no rudders unless you add a skeg or short keel to the centerline of the Mac. Our added skeg is 42 inches long and 6 inches tall. It starts at the stern and goes forward 42 inches. We always drop the centerboard to where about 8 inches hang below the bottom of the boat (about 2 inches of center board rope) when maneuvering the boat to a dock or other boats. Here is our enclosure. It is 6’5” tall.



I this is a dodger over there companion way a Bimini over the cockpit and a connector piece and full side curtains when needed. Feel free to call if you have any other questions that you would like us to answer.

Hi Richard, you have a very nice boat! Yes, I also like X more, for an open concept design and a very functional head, which allows adding a shower with minimal improvements. The aft berth looks very low-profile compared to M, that's right. But I want to leave it for my children. I see I will need to do some work to improve maneuvering at low speeds. Thank you for the information!

Herschel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:28 pm I have had my "X" for almost 20 years. The Admiral and I have spent a good number of nights aboard. We cruise the St. Johns River system in Florida mostly, but we did do a couple of weeks on the Gulf ICW between St. Pete and Venice. For us the aft "berth" or "pizza oven" as it is affectionately called on this forum at times, is mainly used for storage. I use the port side of the V berth with an extension at night, and we cruise with the dinette in bed mode with an air mattress for the Admiral. When I look at pictures of the M's, the aft berth looks like it would be a much less claustrophobic sleeping berth. I think I would be willing to consider trading head height in the head for better sleeping/saloon experience were I to have a do over.

Hi,

Yes, the aft berth on X seems to have a low "ceiling" Is it really so bad? Would it be suitable for childern? Both me and my wife are not tall persons and we are skinny, so I think V berth with extension should be ok for both of us.

leefrankpierce wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:38 am Thoughts on engine size for a motor cruiser.
I ran my boat with the honda 50 four stroke for a long time, the size upgrade was hoping to get my son into tubing or something outside.
I find my 120hp 2 stroke is not as happy at its minimum speed in the marina as the 50 was slightly throttled up.
Point being, if long term slow cruising is expected (6 mph for hull speed), I would stay with the smaller 4 stroke.
With mine I seem to be either at idle, or needing to get to 10mph to keep the engine happy.
Could be differences between 2 stroke and 4 stroke.
Mine also seems fuel hungry, but then again I never seem to allow it to run at hull speed, just seems unhappy there.

I agree that some powerful 2 strokes don't like low-throttle modes. I currently have 125hp 2-stroke Force on my boat and it perfect at high speeds, but struggles when I need to go at marina at snail speeds. Never heard about this problem for 4 stroke motors though. Thinking about 90-100hp 4 stroke for my new boat. I know they might be heavy, will see what I will be able to find...

NiceAft wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:30 pm Vas,

It’s been two weeks, what did you decide

Hi, I was away for a while and had no chance to reply here in the forum. I appreciate everyone who join this discussion! I'm still thinking about X as a plan. I have to check out the inside of the boat in person first, because I only could judge from the pics. If everything be like I expected will buy the X and start working on the project

Vas,

I know some have placed a bladder for water under the aft sleeping area. In my M, I placed a V shaped bladder (30gal) under the V birth. I had to remove some flotation to do it.

vas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:37 pm

Herschel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:28 pm I have had my "X" for almost 20 years. The Admiral and I have spent a good number of nights aboard. We cruise the St. Johns River system in Florida mostly, but we did do a couple of weeks on the Gulf ICW between St. Pete and Venice. For us the aft "berth" or "pizza oven" as it is affectionately called on this forum at times, is mainly used for storage. I use the port side of the V berth with an extension at night, and we cruise with the dinette in bed mode with an air mattress for the Admiral. When I look at pictures of the M's, the aft berth looks like it would be a much less claustrophobic sleeping berth. I think I would be willing to consider trading head height in the head for better sleeping/saloon experience were I to have a do over.

Hi,

Yes, the aft berth on X seems to have a low "ceiling" Is it really so bad? Would it be suitable for childern? Both me and my wife are not tall persons and we are skinny, so I think V berth with extension should be ok for both of us.

Hi, vas.
My thoughts about the V berth might be termed "X" heresy, and probably will be by some. For starters, the OEM depth of cushions was inadequate for me who likes to sleep on my side. My hips bottomed out on the cushion. So, I added 3" of additional foam generating a six-inch cushion. That resulted in there being limited space for my feet under the anchor locker compartment. I'm 5'10" at 200lbs. Won't comment on Admiral . I just don't see us fitting in the V berth and having room to be comfortable even with an extension. Hence, she gets a nice air mattress in the dinette space. Plus, there is the gear---duffle bags for clothes, containers for food and incidentals. Some of that fits under the lowered dinette table, but the starboard side of the V berth just seems like the logical place for us to keep the duffels with our clothes. When I asked my grown son to use the "pizza oven" for a week's transit on the St. Johns from Jax to Sandford, it was affectionately renamed the "dungeon" and has remained that ever since. I asked his very thin and small wife to sleep on the starboard side of the "dungeon" for a weekend, and she and he were found on the cockpit cushions up in the cockpit both mornings. The person assigned the starboard side of the dungeon is essentially closed in and that is claustrophobic to say the least. But this is just one person's experience and opinion. Remember those kids get bigger and bigger. one more thing. "X"'s are older boats, and the Gelcoat does have a vulnerability to UV over time. At 25 y/o, my "X" is showing some thin gelcoat in places despite vigorous efforts at waxing and covering, where a newer "M" should have more life left in its Gelcoat.

While I much prefer the v-berth I've slept on both sides of the aft berth in my "X". The starboard side is not for anyone who is uncomfortable in tight spaces. I'm 6' and 180lbs and have no issues with either side. My brother (6'2" and 240lbs) regularly sleeps on the port side when he stays overnight. Kids should not be a problem on either side.

The main issues with the aft berth are air circulation and weight distribution. It gets hot in there in the summer but it's the more comfortable berth in the winter. Both boats tend to be a little "bottom heavy" between the outboard, fuel, and gear stored in the rear of the boat. Adding a couple of hundred pounds of crew might mess with your balance.

vas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:19 pm ... Also, I'm thinking to move the fuel tanks lower to improve the balance, if there is a space underneath the boat floor to do that. Not sure it it's doable - I will know that exactly when scrape down the interior of boat completely to see what can be optimized there in terms of center of mass. Some water ballast will be there permanently, as I will need a dedicated water tank for shower and fresh water for 2-3 days cruises.

There is not much room anywhere under the floor and even less under the aft berth; that area is almost entirely ballast tank. I'm not sure moving the fuel tanks will have much effect on balance. Gasoline only weighs 6lbs/gal and you will only be moving it a couple of feet down. AFAIK the largest tank that can be squeezed into the fuel lockers holds 12 gallons. That's not much weight.

If you are thinking about putting permanent tanks somewhere in the aft berth area then you will need to think about adding a lot more weight in the rear of the boat. Fifty gallons of gas will almost be like adding another outboard to a boat that is already a little "aft heavy". If you are planning on going over 70hp or so then it will be even heavier (today's 70 is about the weight of the 50 when these boats were built).

The thing that would worry me the most though is moving the fuel tanks into the living area. Currently, any leak in the fuel locker will run out into the cockpit, into the engine well, and then out the aft drain. There are (rare) documented cases where a defect in the fuel locker allowed leaks into the cabin. Since the newest "X" is over 20 years old by now hopefully that has already been fixed on any boat you might buy.

Any leak in a tank lower than that will likely end up in the bilge or cabin and neither is a good place for fuel or fumes.

I suggest you leave any fuel in the cockpit, not in the cabin.

vas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:19 pm I'm thinking to move the fuel tanks lower to improve the balance, if there is a space underneath the boat floor to do that.

My kids loved (when they were smaller, son is taller than I am) the rear sleeping area.

Be Free wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:13 am Kids should not be a problem on either side.

Ditto

Be Free wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:37 am There is not much room anywhere under the floor and even less under the aft berth; that area is almost entirely ballast tank. I'm not sure moving the fuel tanks will have much effect on balance. Gasoline only weighs 6lbs/gal and you will only be moving it a couple of feet down. AFAIK the largest tank that can be squeezed into the fuel lockers holds 12 gallons. That's not much weight.

If you are thinking about putting permanent tanks somewhere in the aft berth area then you will need to think about adding a lot more weight in the rear of the boat. Fifty gallons of gas will almost be like adding another outboard to a boat that is already a little "aft heavy". If you are planning on going over 70hp or so then it will be even heavier (today's 70 is about the weight of the 50 when these boats were built).

The thing that would worry me the most though is moving the fuel tanks into the living area. Currently, any leak in the fuel locker will run out into the cockpit, into the engine well, and then out the aft drain. There are (rare) documented cases where a defect in the fuel locker allowed leaks into the cabin. Since the newest "X" is over 20 years old by now hopefully that has already been fixed on any boat you might buy.

Any leak in a tank lower than that will likely end up in the bilge or cabin and neither is a good place for fuel or fumes.