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In most cases furling the genoa works okay as a reefing tactic but for pointing it's still kinda sucks. These boats kinda suck at pointing anyways.

The big deal about the working jib is the location of the sheet cars on the cabin top. They are in a much better position for pointing. The highest pointing angle possible is achieved by having the sails as close to midships as possible and as flat as possible. With the traveler you can actually set the main sail boom a few inches PAST midships and that does help pointing but the genoa will luff and flutter and deform. The genoa can't point as high as the main.

That's where the working jib works better because the clew can be held closer to midships in the cabin top cars. Clewing the jib down to the deck like that also flattens the jib but the genoa will billow if you attempt to clew the genoa to the cabin top.

Pushing the tack as far forward as possible is always a good thing unless your in very heavy wind. In heavy wind it's better to set headsails close to the mast like a storm jib. Highlander is a heavy boat that flies quite well with the wings set forward but for most of us that would be too much on the front of the boat like running a kite off the top of the mast in 30 knot winds - fast - but really scary. If your heavy enough you can throw up all the cloth you want - that's the whole concept behind the square rigger. You can't over wing a square rigger.

BOAT,

As you said:

These boats kinda suck at pointing anyways.

So, does it really make a significant difference:?:

I believe a jib will be better for pointing into the wind, but if one has a Genny, the difference isn’t worth the effort to switch.

My thinking is that one has a Genny because they sail in low wind conditions. It’s the sail to have. For those occasions where a jib is needed to be able to point better, sail further off wind, and don’t get frustrated. It will take longer to get where you’re going, but with the Jib, you wouldn’t get there much quicker.

If you don’t normally have low wind conditions, you don’t need a Genny anyway, get a jib.

When I sailed mostly on the Delaware (8 miles north of Philly), low wind was the norm. I needed a 150 Genoa. I sailed with if unfurled all the way. When I sail Lake George, that sail is occasionally more than halfway open.

I’m not disagreeing with anything you are saying; I just think the advantage to pointing better is not as important as some are making it. We are not going to win the race, unless it’s against another Mac

There are two threads taking place within this one thread.

1. The effectiveness of a 100% jib with hanks vs. a genoa furled down to 100%. An interesting topic to debate. Ray and BOAT are discussing that now.

2. A member who just bought a new 100% working jib who now wants to buy a 150% genoa because he found one on sale for $150. He wants to add an additional headstay, sprit and furler so he doesn't have to switch sails at launch. He will spend an additional $2,000.00 give or take to accomplish this.

Obviously, it is his boat. But it makes no sense in practice or from a financial perspective. Just buy the 150 and sell the 100 here. The net cost will be negligible. Furl the sail down (just like every other boat on the planet) when necessary.

I am not trying to antagonize anyone here. It's his wallet and again his boat. Personally, I can think of a lot of things I could spend two grand on that would make my boat more enjoyable. Better yet, not spend it and avoid my wife whining when the credit card bill rolls in.

Highlander is a mad scientist. He wanted a cutter and spent the time and money to effect that. The end result is pretty cool and I do enjoy watching the videos.

I am a lurker here. I do not own a Mac nor would I ever purchase one. But I would hazard to guess that I have spent more hours aboard them than most on this site.

My dad purchased one of the very first Venture 17's off the production line. It sunk the moment it was launched. He moved on to a Macgregor 25 and his last boat was an X. The 25 was the best of the lot from a sailing perspective.

Sadly, he and his boats are now very precious memories. I come back here for nostalgia. This was his favorite place for all things sailing.

All interesting

What really is worth to to if you have reefed your Genoa to 100% go with the sheets Inside the shrouds!

This makes aver very big difference!

What you gain when going to a jib from that? I don't know.

You run jib sheets inside the stays through the bullseye on the track aft to the winches.

You run genoa sheets outside the stays to the blocks on the cockpit coaming which reverses its direction back to the winches on top of the dog house.

There is little noticeable performance difference if you furl down to a jib with the sheets outside.

Yup, these talks will go back and forth and even the stuff that I mentioned is just the usual conventional practice. Jib on the deck for pointing or Genoa on the gunnels for speed. The Jib vs Genoa furled argument is an ongoing thing that never seems to end.

To me it's either way because you can veer a little off the wind adding a nautical mile to the distance you travel but if your traveling 1 knot faster you get there in the same amount of time. This works for me because I only sail in the ocean so the legs are very long. If your trying to navigate inlets and bays and need to point to get around rocks and shorelines pointing becomes a lot more important.

As a coastal cruiser the MAC seems to do just fine for me. We leg 25 miles to Dana Point - anchor for the night - get up and sail another 25 miles to Newport - spend a few nights in a slip - then do 38 miles to Avalon - spend a night there and so forth - these are long legs spending 5 to 6 hours on autopilot with very little course changes. The furling Genoa works great in these situations. If I were trying to sail a lot of inlets or fiords or rivers I think the Genoa might not be so good.

Roger mentions in his videos that sailing the M boat under the main sail alone provides the best pointing performance and maneuverability. That's his opinion. I do indeed agree the main points quite well alone because of the traveler - but I disagree with Roger because I hate main sail handling on the M boat - it's hard to drop the main, I find the furling Genoa easier to use in tight spaces. To each his own. I can't dock the boat using the main because it's too hard to drop and the spreaders prevent me from fully depowering the mainsail and I hit the dock too fast. With the furled Genoa I can bring the boat slowly to a dock and let the sail fly to stop the boat. I feel the furling Genoa is a must have on the M boat.

If I were trying to sail a lot of inlets or fiords or rivers I think the Genoa might not be so good.

That’s where the iron Genny comes in