MacGregorSailors.com

97 Merc 50 HP long shaft for one

Jimmyt wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:56 pm

DownSouth wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:52 pm Yes I was always curious over the start by hand comment I wonder how many outboards of 50hp could actually be started without power?

Depends on who's jerking the rope.

50hp

Jimmyt wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:58 pm

Starscream wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:50 pm Rigged! Lol.

All I know is I did all that and there wasn't a chance. I talked to the dealer about the ridiculousness of pull starting and they totally agreed.

There was a guy near my high school that drove a vw without a starter. Pull started it everyday to go to work. Up until then, I wouldn't have believed that could be done either. He was a monster, and nearly lifted the rear wheels off the ground when he yanked it. It's amazing what can be done when there is no alternative.

Although, I'm not sure I could pull start a 25

I don't know when you were in high school, but my 1958 VW had a 34hp engine! I push started it a lot but never tried pull starting it.

74-77. It was a karmann ghia. The guy looked like Mr. Incredible, though. He might have been able to pull start an LS-3.

Sheppie62 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:44 pm
Here I am doing my Forest Gump impression, “got me a shrimpin boat”. Give idea how boat sits in the water.

Thanks so much. This will be my plan this year on upgrading the engine. The goal is to get a new engine this year with an anticipated sail to the Bahamas in 2023. Maybe. Definitely don’t want to try the trip with the current late model Honda that I have.

I’ll reach out to you later to get specifics on how it was done. Also who you had do it.

Thanks again!

Nice Job Sheppie62!

LOVE the 75 HP sticker idea! PERFECT!!!

At the marina down here in Beaufort SC there is a cute party pontoon with trimmed full length awning and folding deck chairs maybe all of 20 feet long.

Nicest people with white sun hats and an old crushed whitish captains hat. Very laid back and reserved.

They have a pair of 30 HP Suzuki 4-Strokes (whisper quiet ) that have a pair of OEM 300 HP stickers on the engines.
The looks they get are priceless!
Especially from the boat rental people who inevitably do a double take!!
When asked they say that ‘they’ve had them for years, they run great but it does get “ a bit bouncy “ when the wind ‘is up in honest deadpan! They are a pair of old school fun loving cards!

So your passing power-boaters with a “75 HP” sailboat must be priceless!!

Best Regards,
Over Easy

PopeyePete wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:06 pm 1)What is the maximum horsepower I can put on a 2001 26 x?
2) What engine would be the best to achieve it?
3)What speed (with and without water ballast) can I expect to get?
4) would it have enough power to pull up a slalom skier?

There was some discussion on the max hp that could be hand started….
The answer is “it depends”

How does a 550 Hp Harvard T6 sound?



How does a 690 Hp Tiger Tank sound?



How does a 1,973 HP Bf-109 sound?



These guys barely broke a sweat ( one guy that left was barely doing anything anyways )

There are other examples but the thought is

“Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world. ”



― Archimedes

While these aren’t outboards the thought comes to mind that it would be nice if an OEM outboard manufacturer would provide a simple safe effective means of hand cranking just about any of their engines regardless of HP?
Why be limited to a rope?

Best Regards,
Over Easy

I don't know how far up the line they went but I remember 1960's (ish) vintage Johnsons and Evinrudes in the 30-40hp range that came with recoil starters (as well as electric and a flywheel that could take a rope for starting). They had all the bases covered.

Nice!
Now that’s looking out for your customer!
Betcha those Designers could appreciate how a SNAFU on the water could quickly turn into a FUBAR all because of a lost battery charge or a failed starter, or a failed starter relay, or even just having blown your last spare fuse!

I like those guys and gals who think beyond the lowest denominators!

Simple solution for dead battery need to pull start. BoatUS tow insurance.

Billy Glover, original big motor guy, has a Suzuki 140 on his 2001 X. No issues. Been to the Bahamas twice in his Mac.

Victor

This is a topic that has been on my mind of late.
It’s just my two cents based upon career and experience….
Please don’t take offense.

But it seems better to say than to leave unsaid as I doubt that most MacGregor owners are Mechanical Product Design Engineers. Nor do I think that most individuals hanging larger than manufacturer recommended engines on their MacGregors have conducted adequate design analysis to determine actual vessel capabilities.
Rodger didn’t make the design records publicly available so making simplified inferences that the reasons for limiting engine size was for ‘helm handling ease’ or ‘hand starting’ or ‘physically lifting’ it are a bit disingenuous….

Rodger MacGregor designed and produced a pleasure motor/sailer family cruiser that can be towed reasonably without needing a Cummins Diesel HD 4x4 Monster Truck. Not a high performance sailboat and definitely not a high speed powerboat nor is it Competition Ski boat.

mallardjusted wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:55 pm The reasons for the manufacturer recommended 50HP maximum was listed in their advertising brochures:

from MacGregor 26X web page, @ 2002
We limited the engine size to 50 hp for a number of reasons:
1) An electric start 50 hp motor provides lots of speed, yet is light enough so that sailing performance isn't compromised.
2) It is about the largest engine that can be started by hand, a nice feature if your battery goes dead.
3) It is about the largest engine you can pick up and move around. Try getting a 100 hp engine off the boat & to a repair shop.
4) Also, the heavier, higher horsepower engines really eat up gas.

This is outdated information, as newer 4-stroke engines have evolved. My 70hp Yamaha weighs essentially the same as 50s back in the early 2000s. Power packs can now be easily carried to start engines. The newer engines get much better fuel economy.

Something that is sometimes forgotten with this topic and referring to the sale marketing brochure is that it is a MARKETING BROCHURE!!!

Rodger MacGregor wouldn’t have missed an opportunity to have said something like “ 50 hp engines are the most versatile but one can safely put engines of upto XXX hp if desired with a possibly heavier helm while sailing” BUT HE DIDN’T which means there are reasons behind limiting the recommendation to upto 50 hp engines.

It has to do with not only engine weight but also the thrust forces on the transom as well as forces on the hull at speed.
No doubt the engineers working for/with Rodger understood the capabilities of the materials and did the engineering to come to the 50 hp engine limitation. They also were smart enough not to produce a marginal product that non-engineering folks would buy and abuse directly or indirectly. So they did like any real engineer does and built in a margin, or safety factor, into the transom design to ensure that it would be robust enough to handle the ‘potential’ abuse that could occur by customers.

Hanging increasingly more powerful and heavier engines on a transom and hull designed for 50 hp progressively “eats into the design margin”. Typically a minimum competent responsible commercial consumer engineered design margin is 25% or more above recommendation before failure. Experienced design engineers also factor in margins for things like material variability, manufacturing variability, workmanship variability , process variability and variability concerning ambient conditions. These are generally in addition to the previously mention 25% factor. That way if all the variables go poorly to the lower limits the design can still maintain that 25% margin capability. If everything goes well to the upper limits of all the variables then the design could have substantially more than the 25% margin capability. The real world is somewhere in between.

While many individuals have been able to operate their boats with engine substantially in excess of the manufacturer’s recommendations it doesn’t mean they haven’t “substantially eaten into or exceeded” the design margin capability. Having done a fair bit of forensic engineering it is prudent to bear this in mind when considering mounting more powerful engines. The increase in additional stress is roughly a square function increase with additional power. These are not true planing hulls. They are more toward the functions of displacement hulls.

It isn’t all about going faster in life. It’s not all about you.
It’s about being responsible not only for yourself, but also for your passengers, their families, future owners and the others (and their families) who go into harms way to effect rescues when it all goes sideways.

If someone does to choose to hang a larger than recommended engine on their Mac I hope they fully understand that they are operating an ‘experimental’ vessel.

Just because one can doesn’t mean one should….

I apologize if I stepped on any toes. I’m sorry

Best Regards
Over Easy

PS: I would suspect that if one wanted to pull a slalom water skier with a Mac26X or Mac26M with a 50 hp engine that it is possible but there is going to be some considerations. The difficulty is reduced by increasing ski plane area by either using a wider slalom ski or by using the two-to-one transition method (where the skier starts with two skis to get up then ‘drops’ a ski and slips the now freed foot into the second binding. I wouldn’t attempt a dock start and would recommend a standard floating deep water start. A wider low flex ski set or wide dedicated slalom ski would be more appropriate when pulling with a Mac26X or Mac26M. That said it very much depends upon the individual skill level of the skier and the operator. People regularly water ski with old 25 hp engines on old glorified skiffs and have a genuine blast doing so.

vkmaynard wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:33 pm Simple solution for dead battery need to pull start. BoatUS tow insurance.
...
Victor

I have it (and have used it). Unfortunately it's usually a 2-3 hour wait for a tow in my neck of the woods.

Hmmmm……2 to 3 hours….Honey, which way was the tide running again?

Yes, We have TowBoat and hope we never have to call but will be really glad when the have to show up

I actually set aside some time one summer, and did this, plus a battery jump start "just in case"

mallardjusted wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:55 pm
2) It is about the largest engine that can be started by hand, a nice feature if your battery goes dead.

OverEasy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:30 pm If someone does to choose to hang a larger than recommended engine on their Mac I hope they fully understand that they are operating an ‘experimental’ vessel.

Not at all! I think you make wonderful points. We are looking to repower in 2023 in preparation for a sail from lower Florida to the Bahamas. So as many thoughts as I can get on what is the best to repower with, the better. My goal isn't to go over 18 knots, but to go 18 knots when loaded down with gear if we get caught in bad weather or the winds aren't working in our favor. I also don't want to damage the boat. I'm not keen on pulling a skier. If I want something that will pull a skier, then we can just get a jet ski or rent a ski boat for the day. (That may change when we have children). Really, just want to motor along at weight at a decent clip when needed ... for instance, on days when we want to go sailing in the ocean and we need to go the 7nm to get out to sea, to be able to have 6 people on board, water ballast full, food and supplies without having to take almost an hour.

I appreciate your thoughts and the thoughts of others.

I'm still learning and lean on the wisdom of the group.

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