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Signaleer wrote:Neo, are you just having fun with us now? Its too much wind for you to raise the main but you are going to fly spinny?

Errr.... Not too much wind, too much hassle .... And different days have different wind speeds .... well at least in this part of the world anyway ..... Fun is what you make of it

Still waiting to hear why it's important to fly a Main? .... I'm sure Highlander would know all about flying 2 or 3 headsails

Still waiting to hear why it's important to fly a Main? .... I'm sure Highlander would know all about flying 2 or 3 headsails

Already told you was designed to sail under main alone and stay balanced and unlike the it has no back stay.

Ahhh yes .... Thanks for the reminder Kadet

kadet wrote:

Still waiting to hear why it's important to fly a Main? .... I'm sure Highlander would know all about flying 2 or 3 headsails

Already told you was designed to sail under main alone and stay balanced and unlike the it has no back stay.

How does 'no backstay' have anything to do with sail balance? (Honest question). All no backstay does is allow for a larger roach mainsail which would arguable move your CE higher (slightly) and more aft (slightly)...

You can sail with any configuration of sails you like, and I've sailed under head-sail alone and had a lot of fun, as you point out. That's what it is all about and how you derive fun is your decision

Sailing with main allows for a balanced sail plan, improved sailing performance (much most likely in many points of sail).

The point is raising the main should not be nearly as hard as you are describing. I'm half believing you are just still egging me on...

If we are to be sailors wouldn't raising the main, adding a reef, controlling sail shape... these are all pretty much a part of the sport aren't they?

Again, sail how you want, and have a ton of fun, but raising the main should be second nature. When I first joined here and tried to step my own mast and nearly killed myself (again, coming from a traditional keel boat) this forum helped me a ton. So, I'll try to do the same. If you are having a hard time raising the main, you could lub up the slugs, but it sounds more like you have a foul somewhere from how you are descirbing it. Have you inspected the block at the mast head? But if your main halyard is led aft, and it runs smooth, raising the main should not be any thing of an issue. Tack, Head, Release Mainsheet, Release Vang, Raise, tighten clew, apply main sheet, remove topping lift, apply vang, sail... (from memory... I may be missing something...)

Hi Signaleer,

We were raising the Mail in 17-20knt gusts .... because .....
1. I choose to have that experience (learn that lesson) that day .... I'd checked the forecast.
2. The main was the only sail I had on board.

The problem was really the reefing, only because I'd never done it before.
I'm not having anyone on (all I described did happened). It was dangerous and kinda stupid but that's how I get my kicks (learn my lessons) so I call that serious fun!

The responses from every here have been invaluable to me (might even save my life one day ) so my thanks to everyone for that.

I can also understand how the Main, sheeted back down to the deck acts as a kinda backstay ... so that Balanced Rigg makes sense to me.

All the best.
Neo

How does 'no backstay' have anything to do with sail balance? (Honest question). All no backstay does is allow for a larger roach mainsail which would arguable move your CE higher (slightly) and more aft (slightly)...

This is 2 points.

1. The was designed to be balanced under main alone this is from Roger comparing the to the

The most striking difference in speed was when both boats were sailing with main alone. In typical conditions, when the 26x was sailing with main and jib, it was going about 5.7 mph. When the jib was furled, the speed dropped by 2 mph. With the new boat, when the jib was furled, the speed dropped by only 1 mph, with little change in the balance of the boat.

This means that an owner can go out for a sail and forget the jib, and still get good performance. In high winds, the main alone is an excellent choice. The new boat is less likely to get in irons when tacking with just the main, and if it does, it is far easier to recover. It balances almost as well with the main alone as it does with the main and jib.

I suppose he achieved this by hull shape,mast position, rotating mast and a larger taller main but I am no marine engineer so these are only guesses

2. Running only a headsail on the with no backstay in heavy winds could overstress the rig especially with a spinnaker.

kadet wrote:2. Running only a headsail on the with no backstay in heavy winds could overstress the rig especially with a spinnaker.

Good point ... I did wonder about that

kadet wrote:

How does 'no backstay' have anything to do with sail balance? (Honest question). All no backstay does is allow for a larger roach mainsail which would arguable move your CE higher (slightly) and more aft (slightly)...

This is 2 points.

1. The was designed to be balanced under main alone this is from Roger comparing the to the

The most striking difference in speed was when both boats were sailing with main alone. In typical conditions, when the 26x was sailing with main and jib, it was going about 5.7 mph. When the jib was furled, the speed dropped by 2 mph. With the new boat, when the jib was furled, the speed dropped by only 1 mph, with little change in the balance of the boat.

This means that an owner can go out for a sail and forget the jib, and still get good performance. In high winds, the main alone is an excellent choice. The new boat is less likely to get in irons when tacking with just the main, and if it does, it is far easier to recover. It balances almost as well with the main alone as it does with the main and jib.

I suppose he achieved this by hull shape,mast position, rotating mast and a larger taller main but I am no marine engineer so these are only guesses

2. Running only a headsail on the with no backstay in heavy winds could overstress the rig especially with a spinnaker.

Ok, so let's maybe agree to disagree (and I don't mind diclaimers that I've never sailed an M). And it is not probably too relevant to argue the point. But I"ll offer my opinion...

In Roger's marketing statements he talks a lot about sailing the M on main alone... and I may put them into the 'marketing' hype a bit.

If the boat is balanced on main alone - adding a head sail would move the center of effort considerably forward. No one would 'design' a sailboat to sail under main alone with a bermuda rig.... Maybe with a cat rig. If the boat is 'completely balanced' with main - it would be out of balance with a head sail.

So, I'm not arguing the fact that it may sail to a certain extent under main alone.... The innovation of rotating mast, dual rudders, hard chine hull help, sure. But to say the things roger did, are to be taken with a bit of salt and I don't think reflect optimized sail balance. He said that it takes 15 minutes to rig, can be towed with a car, is the fastest / best handling trailer sailer in the world too didn't he?

Neo wrote:

kadet wrote:2. Running only a headsail on the with no backstay in heavy winds could overstress the rig especially with a spinnaker.

Good point ... I did wonder about that

I feel like a lone .. something .. here... but how would a main help in this regard. A main sheet controls the boom port and starbord (although when close hauled probably helps provide some stability to the mast... but the sail / mainsheet is not part of the standing rigging. A backstay in a fractional rig introduces mast bend, and does not provide rear stability (or not nearly as much as masthead rig).

I don't know that I'd immediately worry about running headsail or spinny alone on such a rig.

Signaleer wrote:He said that it takes 15 minutes to rig, can be towed with a car, is the fastest / best handling trailer sailer in the world too didn't he?

15 minutes - possible with 4 people rigging at the same time lol!
Towed with a car ... That's true.... just not a small car lol!
Is the fastest / best handling trailer sailer in the world .... Sure is, I love it

Signaleer wrote:I don't know that I'd immediately worry about running headsail or spinny alone on such a rig.

I'm very new to this game, judging everything by eye and gut feel but it's clear that you a Kadet know far more than I. So thanks for this.

BTW... I love the too .... My dream boat would be an on the outside and an on the inside ..... Oh and about 10ft longer too

That'll be a good fit for your spinnaker, too

I don't know that I'd immediately worry about running headsail or spinny alone on such a rig.

Me either but Neo was talking about running a spinnaker in crazy wind speeds

In that case on the the main can offset the shock loading and bending momentum by the leach tension through the boom and boom vang whether it is needed or not is debatable and just my thoughts.

Personally I would not want to be flying a spinnaker in those conditions but if you are going to I think you need every advantage and the main can also act as a nice barn door to lower the spinnaker behind

kadet wrote:Personally I would not want to be flying a spinnaker in those conditions but if you are going to I think you need every advantage and the main can also act as a nice barn door to lower the spinnaker behind

I just want t fly one cause they look cool, but doubt I would try that in a big wind .... but I need to own one before I can fly one

Neo wrote:

Signaleer wrote:He said that it takes 15 minutes to rig, can be towed with a car, is the fastest / best handling trailer sailer in the world too didn't he?

15 minutes - possible with 4 people rigging at the same time lol!
Towed with a car ... That's true.... just not a small car lol!
Is the fastest / best handling trailer sailer in the world .... Sure is, I love it

Signaleer wrote:I don't know that I'd immediately worry about running headsail or spinny alone on such a rig.

I'm very new to this game, judging everything by eye and gut feel but it's clear that you a Kadet know far more than I. So thanks for this.

Well, I hope I am helping. Most of the time I am posting what I *think* I know and sorta explaining it to myself.

Full disclosure, I just started flying a spinnaker this year. On SF BAY there was often too much wind when I was learning to sail and I didn't have the desire to learn as I was most of the time, hanging on... sorta. So, I'm learning things too, every time I go out. I'm learning that I need a cunningham on this boat to get the sail control I want. I'd also love a traveller, but in time.. in time...