Macgregor 65/70 Discussion

[Tomfoolery]

My person favorite is the CSY 44 Pilothouse Ketch, though not many were built. Aft helm, plus pilothouse. They were built for BVI bare boat charters, as I understand the history. Very tough hulls, I suppose in anticipation of groundings (from pilot error, and/or storms).



For anyone following S/V Delos via their videos, they're sailing Amel Super Maramu 53, which sort of has a center cockpit with hard dodger and soft extension. Pretty nice setup. They sail all over the world, of course. But with the open hard dodger, I would think you'd get wet with wind-driven rain off the stern.


(Sister ship, not Delos)

As to the subject 70, I can't decide if I like the spartan interior or not. Having had fancy and spartan, there's a LOT to be said about the ease of maintenance of spartan white gel coat. A few curtains, miscellaneous tchotchkes, and the usual boat clutter, and it all gets invisible after a while anyway when sailing and living on board takes all the focus off the decorating scheme. Not to mention survival at sea. In rough weather. And big waves. Nobody's thinking about the interior joinery while they're tethered to the helm.

[tek]

My person favorite is the CSY 44 Pilothouse Ketch, though not many were built. Aft helm, plus pilothouse. They were built for BVI bare boat charters, as I understand the history. Very tough hulls, I suppose in anticipation of groundings (from pilot error, and/or storms).

For anyone following S/V Delos via their videos, they're sailing Amel Super Maramu 53, which sort of has a center cockpit with hard dodger and soft extension. Pretty nice setup. They sail all over the world, of course. But with the open hard dodger, I would think you'd get wet with wind-driven rain off the stern.


(Sister ship, not Delos)

As to the subject 70, I can't decide if I like the spartan interior or not. Having had fancy and spartan, there's a LOT to be said about the ease of maintenance of spartan white gel coat. A few curtains, miscellaneous tchotchkes, and the usual boat clutter, and it all gets invisible after a while anyway when sailing and living on board takes all the focus off the decorating scheme. Not to mention survival at sea. In rough weather. And big waves. Nobody's thinking about the interior joinery while they're tethered to the helm.

As I've bee looking, an Amel was in the running, I like the overall look, but it relatively low performance and a lot of wood to take care of on a non-wooden boat. The mac wins out easily in both of those categories.

[NiceAft]

BOAT wrote; the faster you can make that crossing the fewer days you are exposed to storm and danger, so speed is important even as a safety feature

To me, sailing is a Zen thing. It's the journey, not the destination If one want's to cross the ocean as safely and as quickly as possible, take a plane

Ray

[BOAT]

Re: Macgregor 65 Discussion

Postby tek » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:12 pm

Still trying to wrap my mind around how wavelengths can favor a 40 footer.. if someone knows an explanation please enlighten me.

In the short interval waves many boats under 40 feet can't make any headway, but most well piloted 30 to 40 foot boats can make good headway in even worse conditions, but the bottom line is: The longer the boat, the easier it will be to make headway in those bad short interval storm swells (some call them "waves" - I remember the first time I pointed to the top of a 40 foot swell that was breaking on my dads boat and I yelled "WAVE!" - Dad said, "that ain't no wave, I'll let you know when we hit a wave"). On the really big rollers I remember feeling a swell inside a swell, it's like there were bumps on the sides of the swells too. If those little bumps get big the stuff is so choppy that the boat can't move forward - boats under 30 feet have great difficulty making headway when it's really bad. But still I know from first hand experience that some of the best boats for big swells are the 23 and 24 foot boats because they actually 'surf' the downside of the swell at a pretty good speed - they make headway by holding fast up the face of the swell and surfing down the back of the swell with good speed.

In all cases when it's bad someone is gonna get wet. That's another reason why I like the plastic interiors on some boats instead of the wood interiors. Things and people get wet in storms.

[BOAT]

BOAT wrote; the faster you can make that crossing the fewer days you are exposed to storm and danger, so speed is important even as a safety feature

To me, sailing is a Zen thing. It's the journey, not the destination If one want's to cross the ocean as safely and as quickly as possible, take a plane

Ray

Indeed Ray, but it's always nice to be able to maneuver - with enough warning a boat this fast can actually maneuver away from trouble in some cases. I was taught to avoid trouble if at all possible when it comes to weather.

[tek]

BOAT wrote; the faster you can make that crossing the fewer days you are exposed to storm and danger, so speed is important even as a safety feature

To me, sailing is a Zen thing. It's the journey, not the destination If one want's to cross the ocean as safely and as quickly as possible, take a plane

Ray

Indeed Ray, but it's always nice to be able to maneuver - with enough warning a boat this fast can actually maneuver away from trouble in some cases. I was taught to avoid trouble if at all possible when it comes to weather.

I' in agreement on the maneuvering, sometimes best to have the ability to avoid trouble. Just because you can move quickly when needed doesn't mean you're required to. You can enjoy slow days and hurry up when you need to, enjoy the best of both worlds. So I still learn towards something that performs better. Safety is one aspect another is even if you aren't always in a hurry, there may be a few trips you have reasons to make better time.

[BOAT]

To be sure you are right Ray, I agree - and that is why the wide boats are way more popular now-a-days. They are fast and they are comfortable. In most case you can avoid trouble by taking your time like you say: make a detour or wait out a situation - don't try to hold to a schedule is probably the number one rule of the ocean passage.

BUT! If you DO find yourself in the nasty stuff - the long low skinny boat with the warm dry pilothouse is gonna be your very best friend and if the galley just happens to be right in your pilot house it might even spare you from a divorce.

One of the biggest fights I ever saw was in heavy sea my mom yelling at my dad because "He was out on deck in the fresh air" and "she was stuck in a dark galley getting sick", so he invited her up to the helm and she got so cold and wet and miserable withing 20 minutes that she was crying. My dad won a battle and taught her a lesson all right but in the end he could have lost the war.

If your gonna cross an ocean you will hit a storm, it's guaranteed.

[tek]

While a pilot house is nice, I'm trying to decide if it justifies doubling the price. Still considering an early Mac 65 as an option at half the price of a later model. I'm not accounting for the second head and stateroom of the later interior as you could fit that out if you liked anyway.

[Russ]

Hey Mike, any pictures of the new Mac 65? Or is it a 70?

[mastreb]

Speaking of motion comfort on wide boats vs. narrow, I recently spend the night offshore (just adrift) on the new boat, which has a 13' beam and a very flat bottom. We drifted because there was no wind (at all) and I wasn't trying to get anywhere.

Anyway, I tried to use the sails to steady the boat but they just flapped back and forth as at the boat bobbed in the still air. The boat sat on top of the waves and was MUCH more "pendulous" than the MacGregor in the same type of water. The heavy keel in combination with the flat bottom setup a sympathetic bobbing with the waves. Even under power on the way back in in the morning it was considerably more wave affect than the MacGregor, so I motor-sailed to use induced wind to steady the boat.

[sirlandsalot]

Hey Mike, any pictures of the new Mac 65? Or is it a 70?

Yes! pics pleeeeease!

[sirlandsalot]

Speaking of motion comfort on wide boats vs. narrow, I recently spend the night offshore (just adrift) on the new boat, which has a 13' beam and a very flat bottom. We drifted because there was no wind (at all) and I wasn't trying to get anywhere.

Anyway, I tried to use the sails to steady the boat but they just flapped back and forth as at the boat bobbed in the still air. The boat sat on top of the waves and was MUCH more "pendulous" than the MacGregor in the same type of water. The heavy keel in combination with the flat bottom setup a sympathetic bobbing with the waves. Even under power on the way back in in the morning it was considerably more wave affect than the MacGregor, so I motor-sailed to use induced wind to steady the boat.

That is surprising! I can't believe how much a Mac rocks around!

[BOAT]

It's just normal - the wider a boat is compared to it's length plus draft the more it's gonna roll. The MAC is actually quite narrow for it's length but the deal with the MAC *(26) is that it does not add much draft. You get a boat with lot's of length AND lots of draft that is skinny and it will not roll much at all.

Hey Matt - what would happen if you tied a drogue anchor or swell dampeners to the port and starboard cleats? That might slow down the roll a LOT - we tried it in Mexico once because the swells were abeam at a mooring and they helps a lot.

*(Had to edit that: the 26 still rolls even as a narrow boat because the 26 does not add enough draft value to the equation, I did not put 26 after MAC)

[Buell_S1W]

There's a Mac 65 being advertised from New Zealand right now, I don't know if it's based here in NZ or somewhere else which is often the case.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =764177591

[BOAT]

There's a Mac 65 being advertised from New Zealand right now, I don't know if it's based here in NZ or somewhere else which is often the case.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =764177591

Looked at the pictures, nice - if only i were rich enough, looks like that one may have had women on board.