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It does look quite a bit better.

WOW

Big improvement in your latest photos I think you can get by with this for awhile.

Just for a guide, here's a pic of my main, when it was new. I would say the sail shape is almost perfect, for conditions that day. Notice mainly the trailing edge........ nice and flat with no curl in the leech. The top batten is a little stiff and is holding the very top of the sail, just a little too flat. I keep planning on sanding it down some, which will limber it up, so it will actually bend a little under sail.
You can also see that the maximum draft (or belly) of the sail is is forward, towards the luff (around in the first 30 to 40% of the sail.

https://app.box.com/s/590ea272a72b1f34bc93

By the way, this is a full batten, loose foot main.

Also, when you zoom in on this picture, you can see that the top tells are wrapping around the sail to the lee side. Only the lower one are flying. I had the sail sheeted in, just a little too tight. When all four tells are flying straight back, you have a near perfect sheeting angle which will drive the boat better.

Anyway..... Good job You have improved things a lot and I think you will find controlling the boat much easier with this improvement.

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

It's amazing how a few subtle changes can make such a dramatic change to the sail shape. Guess that's why the guys who've been at it a long time are good - figured out those subtle changes.


I had a problem with my leech curling over, after I bagged the sail out in a storm. I was hit by a shear wind at just short of 40 knots and ended with a genoa ripped down the middle and wrapped around the main. Couldn't lower it for love nor money and softer than Linus' blanket after that. Tried all kinds of things including adjusting the leech line and taking out stitches to straighten it. Ended up adding a couple of battens and lost most of the curl.

One difference I think I noticed on your sail was how far down the luff is held in the mast compared to mine (just going by memory which isn't all that hot these days - I'll take some pics if I can get out this weekend). The pictures you took after you moved the tack back showed it a bit better. With the rope, the luff would have been in the mast right down to the knee (did I understand correctly - that you added the slugs). It appears that the lowest slug is a bit higher than the bottom of the sail. Would it make sense to add another slug at the knee? Looks pretty close to your cut-out though.

Cheers,
Craig

Dirko wrote:The pictures you took after you moved the tack back showed it a bit better. With the rope, the luff would have been in the mast right down to the knee (did I understand correctly - that you added the slugs). It appears that the lowest slug is a bit higher than the bottom of the sail. Would it make sense to add another slug at the knee? Looks pretty close to your cut-out though.

I didn't add those slugs. The PO had it rigged that way, with no tack attachment other than the little U-fitting with the bolt that's obviously (after the fact ) intended for the tack when using the bolt rope. You should have seen it with the tack in that fitting, before I put the twisted shackle in there, which made it a little better but far from good.

I have video of the sail from earlier today, with tell-tales flying and all, which I'll upload as soon as I figure out how to do it with this machine (I usually put them on my work machine and upload from there).

Now with video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XzfH6y ... e=youtu.be

p.s. Yes, the lowest batten is missing. I haven't a clue as to why it's not there, nor where it could have gone.

Now you're getting somewhere

The video gives a good picture of the sail.
I saw the draft is now moved considerably forward and the sail is flattened much better overall. The leech in not curled around like it was in earlier pictures. VERY GOOD

You should be able to sail and drive the boat reasonably well now and heeling should not be as bad as before.
This should work pretty well now in all but the strong winds. Reef early

Now when you are out sailing, look at adjustments you can make that might further flatten the sail. Try to remember what you did, when sailing, that helped make it flatter. Keep the halyard nice and tight, don't tighten the leech line unless the leech is fluttering, and then just enough to stop it. Keep the outhaul tight enough, so the lower part of the sail doesn't have too big of a belly.
Where outhaul and halyard tension are concerned, you want to have as flat a sail as you can get, without tightening so much that you actually create wrinkles through the body of the sail.

Tip:
A mistake I used to make often;
When hoisting the main, sometimes I would not realize the vang was cleated. The sail would look like crap, because it would not hoist all the way because the boom/vang was holding it down at the leech. So it ends up with a loose luff and a very tight leech...... nasty. Then I would discover my mistake, bang myself in the head a couple times with the winch handle and fix the problem .

Best Breezes
Steve K.

What! You had that wind today on Lake Ontario? Nice! Looks like you're in good shape Tom.

We had squat for wind on Lake Erie today; teaching adult sailing this summer and it was the last day of class, so we went out anyway and did back-and-fills and other exercises under power.

One small thing I have found- a way to quickly check your halyard for tightness (while you're at the mast) is to choke it – grab it at about shoulder height (higher gets you more mechanical advantage, but is more awkward) and pull it toward you while watching the sail for shape and wrinkles.

If it makes things no better, leave it, it only took a few seconds to check. If it confirms that you will get improvements, then you can go ahead and make the tightening adjustments at your cleats.

-B.

seahouse wrote:What! You had that wind today on Lake Ontario? Nice! Looks like you're in good shape Tom.

No, that was Canandaigua Lake (one of the medium sized Finger Lakes for those not from around here). I didn't have the GPS set up, so I don't know how fast we were going, but I'd guess it was better than 5 kts from the sound of the water, and I wasn't really trying.

When I first showed up, there was a bunch of boaters sitting on benches in front of the marina office, gee-wizzing over how much wind there was, and that they'd 'never seen it so rough out there'. But it calmed down a little by the time I got the boat rigged, and winds were less than 15 kts (a guess). Certainly not enough for a reef.

But right away I did notice that it wasn't heeling as much as it used to with that kind of wind. It layed over to 15 degrees or so and just sailed. I was using the working jib, mainly because I wanted to see how close to the wind I could push it, and was pleasantly surprised. I don't have data, but from the tails on the windex, I know it could sail closer to the wind that in the past (with the working jib), as I could put the indicator inside the tails and sill keep the main sail filled, whereas in the past, overlaying the tails was already too tight. The jib was luffing before the main.

I'll have to bring the PC next time and see what it can do. Yesterday was just my impressions, and as I said, I wasn't really trying. It was also the first sail of the year, so I was pretty busy getting things set up.

My sail looks identical to how Toms did when this post started. So after reading all the responses, it looks like I have to:

1. Cut the lower bolt rope stitches. From what I gather there is no reason to reattach them. Be sure not to cut the sheath stitches.

2. Adjust the leech line. I have what appears to be an attachment point at the lower end that looks like a hangmans knot without the loop. This is where it is done ...yes?

3. find a different attachment for the tack. I keep trying to lay this out in my head. Reading the part about drilling a separate hole in the booms sail guide makes sense.

Any final comments?

paul I wrote:My sail looks identical to how Toms did when this post started. So after reading all the responses, it looks like I have to:

1. Cut the lower bolt rope stitches. From what I gather there is no reason to reattach them. Be sure not to cut the sheath stitches.

On mine, there was a vertical line of stitches (with the bolt rope in the normal vertical orientation) a few inches long, plus a solid little knot of stitching near the end. The vertical line was far enough away from the pocket stitching to not put them at risk of my not-so-dexterous paws.

paul l wrote:2. Adjust the leech line. I have what appears to be an attachment point at the lower end that looks like a hangmans knot without the loop. This is where it is done ...yes?

Yes, there and also just above the reefing cringle. It's a single line, with the upper location having the same wedge cleat as the lower.

paul l wrote:3. find a different attachment for the tack. I keep trying to lay this out in my head. Reading the part about drilling a separate hole in the booms sail guide makes sense.

I'm going to the boat later today, and will take a few measurements if you like.

paul l wrote:Any final comments?

Yes. I wish I had thought about this a couple of years ago, especially since it cost me nothing to correct the problems with the sail. It's not a great sail (look at Star Spun's new sails from JudyB if you want to see a great sail for an X), but it's a whole lot better than it was.

The sail shape does look much better now with the shackle moved to the boom.

Now, can anyone help me identify the little plastic fitting about 1/2 inch tall with a small coiled line attached near the foot of both my Doyle sails?

RobertB wrote:The sail shape does look much better now with the shackle moved to the boom.

Now, can anyone help me identify the little plastic fitting about 1/2 inch tall with a small coiled line attached near the foot of both my Doyle sails?

That sounds like what the termination of my luff line looks like.

yeah, that's your luff tension or leech tension line, depending on which end its at.

Yeah- if you're talking about the leech cord tension adjuster (or luff)?

You tighten it enough that it just stops the luffing (flapping) in the sail. It will cause a bit of curl at the edge and a corresponding slight loss of sail efficiency, but about the same loss of efficiency you'd get from the luffing itself, but sail lifespan is improved. (By quite a bit, according to JudyB).

It's another one of those things some people label as "nitpicky", and might want to disregard.

-B.

RobertB wrote:Now, can anyone help me identify the little plastic fitting about 1/2 inch tall with a small coiled line attached near the foot of both my Doyle sails?

There's another one just above the reef cringle of the main sail, though the leach line is continuous through it. Make sure the leach line isn't pinched in the slot up there when the sail is flown full. Obviously that point is for adjustment when reefed, but should be loose when not.