Tiny bubbles

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats
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seahouse
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by seahouse »

That’s a cool computer model video, Ross. Whatever happens, don't let anyone "burst your bubbles" :D . Maybe for now if you want bubbles you can go with Michael “Bublé” songs until the spring. :D

While “I need more power Scotty” might be the order, you can actually see the magnetic effect on water using garden variety rare earth magnets that consume zero energy. I love free stuff.

The surface finish of paint is controlled by chemical additives, and the spray can section of the hardware store has lots of different finishes right out of the can (wrinkle, crackle, hammertone etc). So I would guess they can play with the texture on VC-17 somewhat.

I developed and built a production line that could continuously form a roll of shape-memory polymer (“memory plastic”) into a spiral-wound coil (much like a Damascus gun barrel, overlapping), then cool it, and wind it back up into another roll. Of course, since it now has a memory, that roll had to be constrained or it would “explode” back into a long spiral-wound tube if you released it. Kinda like a magic trick, or “pop goes the weasel”, except somebody could lose an eye.

Laminated on the outside surface of the polymer tube was a layer of various materials being tested, one of them being Teflon, which I referenced in the previous post. The effect of surface finish on the hydrophobicity (is that a word :cry: ?) of the Teflon is quite simple…

The level of repulsion is related to the surface area being acted on (obvious). So a smooth, flat, one-inch square surface repels water over a water area of one square inch. If that same surface is textured, rough, or wavy , the surface area of the interface between the two increases as well, within that same square inch, and so does the hydrophobicness (is that a word :cry:? ).

That’s it. Sorry if I disappointed anyone with such a simple explanation, maybe I oversold the concept, :? misrepresented the product :? ? I much prefer things that are counter-intuitive (that’s a word 8) !).

-Brian. :wink:
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Crikey
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by Crikey »

Brian, I've now read quite a bit about ongoing (military) research, dealing with surface textures of certain applied hull paints. It seems the main goal is to repel the attachment of marine organisms - which is one aspect of sharkskin denticles - and keep the hull at its 'best clean' speed. Vortex and laminar advantages seem to secondary, or of negligible effect in most lower speed ranges.
Where it's supposed to be advantageous is in combination with bubbling, which may have something to do with the stick-tion (is that a word also?) and guidance of the bubble. Beene's V17 is highly rated and may be worth a try! I haven't seen any Teflon paints yet but there are silicone based ones that also advertise low friction (hydrophobic - not that there's anything wrong with that!) properties. Given, that removing silicone infused into fiberglass is near impossible, I would be reluctant to take this route.
The jury's still out for the moment.
It'd be nice to have some data on exactly how much water invades the keel housing, and how much turbulence results from that opening. The manual states it can exit from the top of the trunk under certain loading's. That's a lot! Would that indicate how much force would be required to 'blow' the other way?
R.
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seahouse
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by seahouse »

If you’re looking for an anti-foul, you’ll notice that VC-17 is not highly rated (and neither is Micron CSC, which is on my hull) by Practical Sailor. But don’t let that fool you, their test location is Sarasota Florida, which is salt water, and they have very different environmental conditions than what we have here. And these paints were made for fresh water, so that particular test result (and PS says that) is not really applicable.

VC-17 (and some other anti-foul paints) is also (besides Beene) held in high regard by locals who have experience with it on the great lakes, including my brother-in-law who slips his boats all summer, like I do. (After 2 seasons I’m very happy with the performance of the Micron, especially compared to other boats in the marina, and the amount of fouling on my rudder brackets, which are uncoated). VC-17 is what I hear most people around here using, that use anything at all.

Another paint, fairly new to our market, which I would consider using, is Flexdel Aquaguard (from NJ), which has had good local zeitgeist so far. And an easy, economical DIY product. Dowsar will be carrying it soon.

Yeah – the daggerboard trunk functions as a built-in manometer tube to directly indicate the pressure on that area of the hull. I’d like to know that too- just curious. You could make a float with a 6’ length of stiff wire to tell you where the water level was. Your blown Mac supercharger would need more power at some running conditions, than others.

-Brian. :wink:
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by Boblee »

One thing I have done in the past, during rough conditions under power, is follow another larger power boat to take advantage of the “smoothing” effect of his wake over the surrounding rough water. I’m sure everyone has done this at one time or another
Yep done it many times and also running the bow wave from a boat in front, certainly save fuel but not sure about running right in the wake except for smoothing the water when rough.
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seahouse
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by seahouse »

Crikey wrote...
which may have something to do with the stick-tion (is that a word also?)
Yes, that IS a word. I looked it up in the stick-tionary. :D :D :D

-B. :(
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by Catigale »

Nicely struck , Sir!!!
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by Catigale »

I always thought that the turbulent, disturbed water was having the opposite effect regardless of whether it seemed smoother or not.
Flow dynamics is a very cool field and people use lasers to image flow fields and map them.

Turbulent flow is generally less drag, which is somewhat counterintuitive until you spend 10 years at Caltech studying it and then it's trivial. The coolest application of this is one of my favourite pastimes.....football, where I was a free kick specialist. Cool link here....

http://www3.wooster.edu/physics/jris/Fi ... rticle.pdf
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Crikey
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Re: Tiny bubbles

Post by Crikey »

I just know we're going to end up with a Magnus effect rotor ship, before we are done here!
Another observation I should have added earlier was that the champagne water in the wake (close in) of the boat you are following, not only smooth's your passage but forces you to back down the throttle to keep distance and avoid running into your 'buddy'. Could be either turbulence, bubbles, or simple plain water flatness - or a combination of all three. Just sayin...
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