Solar Panel

[kmclemore]

OK, so for you electronic geeks... if I have the Honda EU1000i generator, and it only produces 8 amps at 12v (which is pretty wimpy, admittedly)... will I get more charging power out of the generator by using a 110v battery charger connected between the generator and batteries than I would by just using the 12v power coming directly from the generator (8 amps)?

And if so, what's the largest 110v battery charger I can run on it to charge my batteries? (i.e., without snapping the generator's breaker!)

[flynfol]

You will probably be limited by battery size. Lead acid batteries can accept 20% of a/h capacity without risk. I charge my batteries separately because they are different ages and have different internal resistances. I have an Iota DLS30 with built in IQ charging. (you want that IQ) you can add it to existing dls series chargers, it plugs into a phone jack. But I would think that an EU1000 could handle the DLS45 without overstressing it. I leave mine plugged in all winter. It will give it a topping charge every 7 days or so to stir up the electrolyte.

After a day of sailing, back at the dock, my charger goes into float mode after 20-30 minutes.

[Hamin' X]

IOTA claims >80% efficiency, so the DLS-55 model is right at the max that your Honda 1000i will handle.

On batteries, AGM's will accept a much higher charge rate than regular wet-cell lead-acid, due to the lower internal resistance. For this same reason, you can discharge them at a much higher rate, without losing capacity.

~Rich

[Sumner]

Guys the questions I posted were why use 110 on the boat?

..........Why do you want 110 on board? What benefits are there to running a 110 generator? .............I can't hardly think of an appliance that won't run directly off 12 volts. .............Where do you store these generators? Do you have to get them out to run your laptop and other items?..............You have a battery bank, why not just use that to power everything?

I'm still wondering what appliance that you need to run that doesn't come in 12 volts? If you are setup to run everything off of 12 volts then you have the option of using it any time you want without having to pull a generator out and starting it to run whatever.

When it comes time to charge our batteries I can see what works for one might not work for another....

....... I think we all are powering our boats from 12 volt batteries. We are just talking about alternative means of charging our batteries that suit our individual needs. No doubt solar would fit into our ability to remain quiet.(love that idea) Again, I would love to do that because I know that technology works. (been using it for some time myself with great success) Finding room for those "solar sails" is just something I can't do on a 25 foot sailboat. Counting on 8 "good" hours of sun a day is another here in the midwest...............John

Growing up in Missouri, and no I don't miss all of those cloudy days one bit, I can understand John's method of charging his batteries and if solar is out for you or you have to supplement solar I think he has the best solution I've seen to date if you just want to buy parts off the shelf and not build something like I have. He is maximizing the use of the 110 generator with a really good charger. My setup is not that noisy now and if I can cut the vibration noise down from how it is mounted and the exhaust just a bit it will be as quiet as the Honda's and a lot less expensive, but I realize everyone doesn't have the time or tools to build something like I have. If you don't I for sure would emulate John's setup.

The one thing I would still do if I ran a 110 generator is to find a permanent mounting location in our case. I'm 66 and still in pretty good shape, but getting heavier objects in and out of the laz. are just not a good option any more. I like it now that I can just reach over and put the choke on and one pull and we are charging. We realize that our boat looks like a barge to some, but for us at our age if we are going to be out on the water for a month at a time or longer it is all about being functional.

Keith that is a great setup. I've wanted to do something similar, but my .....



.....dinghy outboard is pretty much in the way, but I'm going to keep trying to figure a way around that. I want to be able to ............



..... have access to using the winch to lower it and have come up with a way to have an 80 watt over it that would be able to slide off to the port side when I needed to lower the motor. Now I just have to figure a way to have 2 80's like yours that will hinge and also slide off to port.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to..

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[Russ]

I use a CPAP machine at night and it uses 6 amps for 6 to 7 hours that I use it. That is about 39-40 amp hours. It would take running the Honda 1000 about 5 hours to replenish that in my case

Your CPAP draws 6 amps? Wow! That sounds high and would certainly drain your battery fast. Do you use a humidifier? If so, could you turn it off on the boat? After all, the humidity on the water is pretty high compared to your home anyway. We live in the desert as well, but on the lake it's not as dry.

Maybe you need to find a more efficient CPAP. Some new ones have self contained battery packs. Ours has a 12v cord and doesn't seem to draw much at all. We run a CPAP off our deep cycle battery and only have the outboard to charge it back up and it works fine. We run the GPS chartplotter, VHF and sometimes CD player all day and have yet to kill the battery. Now with the electric fridge, I need some more charging power.

Oh, and why don't you want to use your laptop with 12v cord instead of building a 12v computer? You can pick up a netbook for under $300 bucks that will use hardly any power and run your charting software. For a little more you could get a low draw notebook with DVD player.

--Russ

[Russ]

I fitted two 80watt panels on rear of my mac and they seem to be working out ok.
Enough power to run fridge and accessories and charge batteries
]

I love this. It's exactly what I was thinking. You are able to adjust the angle with that mount. The fold up idea is also brilliant.

--Russ

[Russ]

Thanks that gives me an idea. I was thinking rubber mounts right under the Honda, but if that doesn't work or in addition to that maybe rubber mounts for the struts that mount the platform for the Honda and alternator.

Yes... looking at that photo, you could insert a piece of rubber between the 2 arrows on the left. I assume that's what you mean. The key I guess, is making the rubber with enough flex to absorb the motion but strong enough to support the weight. I still think the 12v generator idea is fantastic.

Is that your VHF antenna next to it? If so, I wonder if the generator and all that metal is interfering with it. How noisy is the exhaust? I saw a mod where someone put the exhaust of their Honda gen underwater. He said it reduced the exhaust noise but created a bubbling sound. Could you submerge it with some kind of fizzy bubbler thingy like they use in ponds to disperse it into tiny bubbles instead of large bubbles.

--Russ

[flynfol]

Hi Sum,

I've been reminded numerous times that my desire and/or means to fabricate things is not shared by everybody. (I don't get it ) I look at something that is a mess, and see potential. Others see.............a mess. Maybe it is a disease I couldn't help wanting to build things whether it was models,dirtbikes, snowmobiles,cars, planes, and now boats since I could hold a wrench. Tinkering is in your blood or it isn't.

Your fabricating capability is beyond mine (I'm limited by space) and If I take up another corner of the kingdom, the queen....er..... king, king, king (sorry honey) is going to have my head

I have regressed somewhat as I get older to purchase something that I could have made, but maybe didn't have the time. I can have long periods of free time , followed by long periods of un free time

In any regard, I marvel at your desire to fab things, and look forward to seeing more of your mods. I can't wait to hear your report on that new fridge. It seems that advertising benefits sales instead of real world results.

Fairwinds,
John

[Sumner]

I use a CPAP machine at night and it uses 6 amps for 6 to 7 hours that I use it. That is about 39-40 amp hours. It would take running the Honda 1000 about 5 hours to replenish that in my case

Your CPAP draws 6 amps? Wow! That sounds high and would certainly drain your battery fast. Do you use a humidifier? If so, could you turn it off on the boat? After all, the humidity on the water is pretty high compared to your home anyway. We live in the desert as well, but on the lake it's not as dry.

Maybe you need to find a more efficient CPAP. Some new ones have self contained battery packs. Ours has a 12v cord and doesn't seem to draw much at all. We run a CPAP off our deep cycle battery and only have the outboard to charge it back up and it works fine. We run the GPS chartplotter, VHF and sometimes CD player all day and have yet to kill the battery. Now with the electric fridge, I need some more charging power.

Oh, and why don't you want to use your laptop with 12v cord instead of building a 12v computer? You can pick up a notebook for under $300 bucks that will use hardly any power and run your charting software. For a little more you could get a low draw notebook with DVD player.

--Russ

I do run the humidifier and the 6 amps is with it running and is 6 amps at 12 volts not 110. The machine, a RemStar Auto with A flex, has been really nice. It runs on 12 volts when the power supply is plugged into 110. I'd be interested in what you are using and how many amps it draws at 12 volts. I really like the humidifier and would hate to give that up. You could post here or PM me, thanks.

We both have Dell laptops and they draw quite a bit more than an atom based computer like the notebooks your mentioned. I'll have more into this build than an atom base notebook, but I think it will be much more versatile. For one with the separate .....



.....monitor I can mount it up by the companion way when we want to run it as a chartplotter that we can see from the cockpit. We feel this is going to be very important when we are in Florida with all of the shallow water and tight channels down there. It has a GPS puck attached to it for real time position on the screen. The computer will be real compact, but will still have an internal DVD player and we can move the monitor around in the cabin for movies or general computer use with a full size wireless keyboard. I just can't type fast on the notebooks . The motherboard......



http://www.directron.com/nf94270lf.html

...... will also have a 1/2 height PCI slot that opens the possibilities of about any type card we might want to add to it. 2 serial ports build in for a direct connection to the handheld GPS and up to 8 USB ports. The built-in power supply.........

http://www.mini-box.com/M3-ATX-DC-DC-AT ... Supply?sc=
8&category=981

....... will work on anything from 6 volts to 24 volts and will even survive cranking voltage losses. The atom based notebooks run on 12 volts, but from everything I've read you still need to hook a power supply between them and your 12 batteries as the atom needs almost exactly 12 volts and won't work on the various voltages coming from your battery under discharge and while being charged. We can either run a TV card in the 1/2 high slot or via a USB connection. We don't watch TV, but it might help getting weather when out at times. It is going to cost probably 1/2 again as much as a notebook, but I feel we will have lot more flexible computer system.

We are also going with an antenna mounted Bullet 2 HP radio for Wi-Fi and it will go to a wireless router so that we will have Wi-Fi on either this computer or one of the laptops if we happen to be using one of those also. These Wi-Fi solutions have been picking up at distances of 2-5 miles depending on conditions.

We really want to use the boat for even longer trips than what we did last year so are doing things that just wouldn't make sense to someone who uses their boat for day sailing, weekend sailing or even an occasional 1 week trip. We are getting close to having a really nice cruiser and I still can't think of a better boat than a Mac for our situation.

On the question about the VHF antenna, yes it is there, was there when we got the boat and I'll leave that one there as a spare. Since the generator doesn't run often I don't know about the interference. Never had them on at the same time. We are adding a mast head antenna and a new VHF with DSC. We will leave the old radio and antenna mounted as a spare just in case.

I've thought about the exhaust under water and stuck it into a bucket once as a test. Unless it is quite a ways under the water it just blows water out. I'm a little chicken to put it very far under water as I don't know if the engine is designed around that kind of back pressure on the exhaust side. One thing about the 5 hp Honda is that I only have to run it about 1/2 throttle and it really isn't that loud now. Like you mentioned the mounts might really help the vibration noise and that is the annoying part now if it is running and you are down in the cabin. I might try though to add another muffler to the exhaust pipe. Also with the added solar we are doing I still think on the average it will run less than 15 minutes a day if we have sun.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to..

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

[Sumner]

Thanks that gives me an idea. I was thinking rubber mounts right under the Honda, but if that doesn't work or in addition to that maybe rubber mounts for the struts that mount the platform for the Honda and alternator.

........ How noisy is the exhaust? .... fizzy bubbler thingy .....Russ

Here is a picture with the exhaust .......



..... attached. The pipe just slides over the muffler exhaust and the spring holds it on. I usually just leave it on once we are on the water, but it goes off and on in just a few seconds. As you can see it ends just above the water. Your "fizzy bubbler thingy" got me to thinking that if the pipe did expand into a larger diameter chamber then maybe it would work slightly under the water. Thanks, gives me something to play with, but I must mention again that the Honda with its stock exhaust is pretty darn quiet at 1/2 throttle. Nothing like mowing the grass .

The whole generator build is here with lots more pictures for anyone that is interested....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-13.html

......and all of my outside mods to the boat are here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... index.html

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to..

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

[Russ]

We both have Dell laptops and they draw quite a bit more than an atom based computer like the notebooks your mentioned. I'll have more into this build than an atom base notebook, but I think it will be much more versatile. For one with the separate .....



.....monitor I can mount it up by the companion way when we want to run it as a chartplotter that we can see from the cockpit. We feel this is going to be very important when we are in Florida with all of the shallow water and tight channels down there. It has a GPS puck attached to it for real time position on the screen. The computer will be real compact, but will still have an internal DVD player and we can move the monitor around in the cabin for movies or general computer use with a full size wireless keyboard. I just can't type fast on the notebooks . The motherboard......



http://www.directron.com/nf94270lf.html

...... will also have a 1/2 height PCI slot that opens the possibilities of about any type card we might want to add to it. 2 serial ports build in for a direct connection to the handheld GPS and up to 8 USB ports. The built-in power supply.........

http://www.mini-box.com/M3-ATX-DC-DC-AT ... Supply?sc=
8&category=981

....... will work on anything from 6 volts to 24 volts and will even survive cranking voltage losses. The atom based notebooks run on 12 volts, but from everything I've read you still need to hook a power supply between them and your 12 batteries as the atom needs almost exactly 12 volts and won't work on the various voltages coming from your battery under discharge and while being charged. We can either run a TV card in the 1/2 high slot or via a USB connection. We don't watch TV, but it might help getting weather when out at times. It is going to cost probably 1/2 again as much as a notebook, but I feel we will have lot more flexible computer system.

Well, as a computer person, I a can appreciate building that thing. The swing out monitor would be handy.

WiFi is growing everywhere and I've experimented with directional antennas. I'm interested in your WiFi solutions here. For me, WiFi just won't cut it and I've found an app that lets me connect my G3 Droid phone to my notebook. It seems to work well and I'm hoping to get service with it.

--Russ

[Irafatsar]

now that I have a generator, I can install my espresso machine, toaster oven, a heater for the wife, watch a movie or two, and charger for the batteries.

[Russ]

One item I found that they don't make a decent 12v version of is a hair dryer. Well actually they do and I bought one for my wife but it was a total joke.
Microwave oven is another that comes to mind as well as air conditioning.

Everyone uses their boat differently. When we are out we expect to leave some comforts at home in exchange for the beauty and peace of the water.

--Russ

[flynfol]

Captain...........I think we need a bigger..........generator

Your arm would get pretty tired holding up the 4 gauge wires going to your 1000 watt 12 volt hair dryer (80+ amps)

John

[Russ]

Captain...........I think we need a bigger..........generator

Your arm would get pretty tired holding up the 4 gauge wires going to your 1000 watt 12 volt hair dryer (80+ amps)

John

Oh how true.

Shortly thereafter, however, she found a butane powered curling iron. It worked pretty good.

--Russ