26m 2004 or 2000 26x Your thoughts

[Kelly Hanson East]

...remember BNG, it a decision, not a search....

[vkmaynard]

Here is one good reason to purchase an X version. Built in AC.

Victor

[Erik Hardtle]

Our decision came down to one thing: Centerboard vs Daggerboard

The thing about a daggerboard is that it is alot like a keel... hit something and there is bound to be some damage somewhere and you might get stuck for a while.

I have been using centerboard boats for years (oday, mac 19 ) and have always liked... or been saved by the "kick up" feature when I hit somthing... AND I DO HIT STUFF... logs, sandbars, fishing nets, submerged bouys... and don't get me started on crab pots... Luckly I have never gotton stuck thanks to the "kick up" feature.

Check out my website Ships Log and Modifications for pictures and stories of my families adventures:
http://www.enctrader.com/knotshore.htm

I bought mine used... AND I AM GLAD I DID!! I got all the extras... cushions, gps, radio, roller furling, bimini...etc.

Feel free to ask questions. Good Luck

Oh, I have the same A/C mod above that Victor does... it doesn't work on an M.

Erik
KnotShore

[Terry]

Aside from what has already been mentioned, the '03 & '04 M's have the galley positioned in front of the mirror between the daggerboard trunk and starboard hulll. This opens up easy access to the king size aft berth which has more room, is located on the lowest and flatest most stable portion of the hull and a lower center of gravity while anchored, all which contribute to stability and less motion while sleeping. Also you don't have to play footsies with anyone like you would in the unstable V-berth. (never did understand why people sleep in the bow)
I am not sure the dinette table is a problem as we rarely have it in place, but on the '03 it is in two sections.The mirror seems more functional with the galley in front of it but with the seat there it seems out of place, perhaps they should have just omitted the mirror in later models.
I notice on my M that while seated on the windward side of the cockpit I can brace my feet on the leeward side easily, something I cannot do on the X even though I am 6' tall with long legs. There is also the traveller and rotating mast with the M, not to mention the option of getting the Musclehead mainsail. In hindsight I am glad it took my wife and I an extra year to get ouir finances in order to purchase because it opened the option of getting the blue M.

[K9Kampers]

Aside from what has already been mentioned, the '03 & '04 M's have the galley positioned in front of the mirror between the daggerboard trunk and starboard hulll. This opens up easy access to the king size aft berth which has more room, is located on the lowest and flatest most stable portion of the hull and a lower center of gravity while anchored, all which contribute to stability and less motion while sleeping. Also you don't have to play footsies with anyone like you would in the unstable V-berth. (never did understand why people sleep in the bow)...
... I notice on my M that while seated on the windward side of the cockpit I can brace my feet on the leeward side easily, something I cannot do on the X even though I am 6' tall with long legs.
:

re: Stability - you're always gonna feel the motion of the ocean, regardless where you sit / stand / lay. If this boat is
a-rockin', don't come a-knockin'!...Internal influences depend on the activity of the occupants.

re: Footsies - not always a bad thing. Starts with the foots...leads to ("If this boat is a-rockin'...)

re: Sleeping in bow - I like sleeping in the bow for it's easy / quick access /exit. Thru the open hatch: listening to the sounds of the night, boats, birds, waves; the smells of the ocean and cool breeze; watching the stars / moon / sunrise; being able to do a quick visual check of anchorage while still under the covers.

re: Cockpit - I'm 6' tall with long legs and in my X, I have no problem bracing against opposite bench. The X cockpit is a little bigger, good for when more than one person aboard.

[Terry]

re: Stability - you're always gonna feel the motion of the ocean, regardless where you sit / stand / lay. If this boat is
a-rockin', don't come a-knockin'!...Internal influences depend on the activity of the occupants.

re: Footsies - not always a bad thing. Starts with the foots...leads to ("If this boat is a-rockin'...)

re: Sleeping in bow - I like sleeping in the bow for it's easy / quick access /exit. Thru the open hatch: listening to the sounds of the night, boats, birds, waves; the smells of the ocean and cool breeze; watching the stars / moon / sunrise; being able to do a quick visual check of anchorage while still under the covers.

re: Cockpit - I'm 6' tall with long legs and in my X, I have no problem bracing against opposite bench. The X cockpit is a little bigger, good for when more than one person aboard.

It is very doubtful that any Mac is 'a-rockin, so don't come a-knockin' every night at every anchorage, especially if there is another family member aboard, most females prefer to abstain, prefering the comforts of their home environment, footsies or not.
The more weight there is in the bow, the heavier it is, and the deeper it must sink in order to dispalce an amount of water equal to that weight, therefore causing the stern to sit higher and making the boat overall less stable. A strong evening wind or passing powerboat would be sufficient water disturbance to make sleeping unpleasant in a bow heavy arrangement. The M with its' 15 degrees deeper V would make it moreso, but every Mac powersailer would be considerably more stable and solid feeling at night with occupants lying down in the lowest and flatest portion of the hull, keeping the center of gravity lower, this is just simple physics.
The wide open access to the aft berth in the '03/'04 M provides easy quick access exit, moreso due to proximity to the companionway ladder, one can simply grab the ladder and haul themselves out of the sleeping bag and up those steps in a single motion.
I can hear the sounds of the night, boats birds and waves and smell the ocean from any position in the boat. I sleep with my eyes shut so I don't see too much, and here in the PNW it does get chilly at night on the water so I keep all hatches closed but the morning sun still brightens below decks to anounce the sunrise.
I have a heavy 16# danforth with 25' of 3/8 chain so I sleep with confidence the few times I anchor, mostly we are marina rats.
We have several 26X boats in the MYCBC club and I have had many occasions to sit in the X cockpit for drinks and chat and go for the odd sail. I have to slouch down to get my feet to the other side and brace myself so I chose to just hang on to the windward side, the X cockpit is substantially bigger. On my M my knees are bent when bracing the leeward side, it is a smaller cockpit, no doubt about it.

[Trouts Dream]

The more weight there is in the bow, the heavier it is, and the deeper it must sink in order to dispalce an amount of water equal to that weight, therefore causing the stern to sit higher and making the boat overall less stable.The more weight in the stern would have the same effect on the bow, so its a toss up either way (basic physics) A strong evening wind or passing powerboat would be sufficient water disturbance to make sleeping unpleasant in a bow heavy arrangement. or a stern heavy arrangementThe M with its' 15 degrees deeper V would make it moreso, but every Mac powersailer would be considerably more stable and solid feeling at night with occupants lying down in the lowest and flatest portion of the hull, keeping the center of gravity lower, this is just simple physics. Although you are correct about the lowest part being infintesimably more stable for side to side rocking, flat part or not the whole boat moves and any up or down or front to back will be felt the same throughout the boat.

Neither boat can be scientifically proven to be superior and as always keep in mind the end use of the boat (if its for racing, think again) when deciding on an M or X

[BNG]

Do you sleep/ anchor with your dagger board or center board down?

[c130king]

Do you sleep/ anchor with your dagger board or center board down?

No.

Can someone tell me in which dimensions the cockpit is "bigger"? Is it wider or longer or both? I have been on both but never close in time so I have never really noticed a difference other than the step up into the cabin on the which I have no problem with...my Dad's favorite place to sit when motoring.

Cheers,
Jim

[Sumner]

re: Sleeping in bow - I like sleeping in the bow for it's easy / quick access /exit. Thru the open hatch: listening to the sounds of the night, boats, birds, waves; the smells of the ocean and cool breeze; watching the stars / moon / sunrise; being able to do a quick visual check of anchorage while still under the covers..............

We don't have an or , but we are bow sleepers also and love it for a lot of the reasons you mentioned.. We really like the fact that the hatch is there and we can control how much air we get. Even when it is below 40 we like a little. It is cooler up there in the summer with the hatch and warmer in cold weather, since it is more closed it and higher. We like the confined coziness of it., but I did take the head out and make it.......



........ longer so we have more foot room (I'm 6-1) and more storage........



........... at our heads. With the improved storage.......



.........there for our cloths and other items it is handy.

We slept up there over 40 nights this past year and all of those were anchored out and we only had one night where we thought it would be better to be back in the aft berth. It was too full of junk, but now that we have more overall storage on the boat we have it where we can move back there if the need arises due to waves.

The answer to the or dilemma is easily solved........buy a S or D (btw why don't we have neat symbols for our boats?....I'm hurt )

C ya and I'll bet your are happy no matter what you buy or where you sleep ,

Sum and Ruth

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[Terry]

The more weight there is in the bow, the heavier it is, and the deeper it must sink in order to dispalce an amount of water equal to that weight, therefore causing the stern to sit higher and making the boat overall less stable.The more weight in the stern would have the same effect on the bow, so its a toss up either way (basic physics)
Incorrect, the stern being broader does not have to sink as low as the bow to displace a volume of water equal to the weight placed over it. The boat remains more parallel to the waterline when the weight is placed aft.
A strong evening wind or passing powerboat would be sufficient water disturbance to make sleeping unpleasant in a bow heavy arrangement. or a stern heavy arrangement
Incorrect again, the boat would settle still sooner and with less rocking in a stern sleeping arrangementThe M with its' 15 degrees deeper V would make it moreso, but every Mac powersailer would be considerably more stable and solid feeling at night with occupants lying down in the lowest and flatest portion of the hull, keeping the center of gravity lower, this is just simple physics. Although you are correct about the lowest part being infintesimably .Substantially more stable for side to side rocking, flat part or not the whole boat moves and any up or down or front to back will be felt the same throughout the boat.[/color]

Neither boat can be scientifically proven to be superior and as always keep in mind the end use of the boat (if its for racing, think again) when deciding on an M or X

Where is the ballast placed in any given boat????
It is placed on the bottom of the hull at the lowest and beamiest point where it can influence the center of gravity and the center of bouyancy in the most positive manner. The Mac is very beamy at the aft berth and the aft berth is substantially lower to the waterline than the V-berth. Boat motion side to side or fore and aft will be more exagerated if the motion is originating from the bow and it will cease rocking and setttle much quicker if the weight is in the beamier/lower aft portion. There are little pendulum trinkets you can buy in gift stores that clearly demonstrate this, think of the piano tempo pendulum, the higher you move the weight the further over from side to side the pendulum moves, basic physics.
When out on a large fishing vessel is is far more easy to endure sea sickness if you move closer to the center of the boat than at either end or side because the motion is felt to a lesser degree in the center of the boat. So again in the end you are still incorrect. Wether X or M or 19' there are benefits to keeping weight in the lowest most beamiest position of the hull, that is why ballast is located there.

All fins up while anchored, in case you anchor too shallow and the tide drops too much and to eliminate the daggerboaard from clanging in the trunk.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Uh oh Mods, better get these guys to stand down from GQ....

[Sumner]

............. The Mac is very beamy at the aft berth and the aft berth is substantially lower to the waterline than the V-berth. Boat motion side to side or fore and aft will be more exagerated if the motion is originating from the bow and it will cease rocking and setttle much quicker if the weight is in the beamier/lower aft portion........

I agree that movement will be less in the aft berth, but not because we are there. Our weight, hopefully , is a very small part of the boats weight. If you are on anchor and the wind/waves are coming in on the bow the bow will ride up and down on them. The movement, distance traveled, is going to be greater at the bow. Take your first finger and point it straight out and then move it up and down. The tip of your finger is the bow. As your finger moves up and down which end travels further up and down.

We love the V-berth, but will keep the aft berth available for those few times that it is a better place to be,

Sum

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[K9Kampers]

It is very doubtful that any Mac is 'a-rockin, so don't come a-knockin' every night at every anchorage, especially if there is another family member aboard, most females prefer to abstain, prefering the comforts of their home environment, footsies or not.

I don't know about most females, just one!

The more weight there is in the bow, the heavier it is, and the deeper it must sink in order to dispalce an amount of water equal to that weight, therefore causing the stern to sit higher and making the boat overall less stable. A strong evening wind or passing powerboat would be sufficient water disturbance to make sleeping unpleasant in a bow heavy arrangement. The M with its' 15 degrees deeper V would make it moreso, but every Mac powersailer would be considerably more stable and solid feeling at night with occupants lying down in the lowest and flatest portion of the hull, keeping the center of gravity lower, this is just simple physics.

When out cruising, on my boat, one or two people sleeping in the bow is not enough weight to significantly offset the weight of gear & provisions in the aft berth, in the cockpit, fuel tanks, and other weight aft, to make the boat less stable for pleasant sleeping. If I desired a more stable vessel at anchor, I would not have bought a Mac, much less a sailboat. A heavier powerboat would fit that bill.
Debating the physics of which boat, X vs. M, or which sleeping location is more stable at anchor isn't so important to me, as the rock & roll of a sailboat is just part of the experience. PITA sometimes, sure, but remember, this is a sailboat. Whether wind driven or powerboat waves, when my sleep is affected by the 'instability', it's then time to get on shore for safety sake.

The wide open access to the aft berth in the '03/'04 M provides easy quick access exit, moreso due to proximity to the companionway ladder, one can simply grab the ladder and haul themselves out of the sleeping bag and up those steps in a single motion.

The M design over the X, certainly has an advantage for access to the aft berth.

[K9Kampers]

Can someone tell me in which dimensions the cockpit is "bigger"? Is it wider or longer or both? I have been on both but never close in time so I have never really noticed a difference other than the step up into the cabin on the ...

I'll post some cockpit measurements, if someone else will post measurements for comparison:

Cockpit length (bench): 75"
Cockpit width (seatback to seatback): 70"
Bench width: 18"
Floor width: 29"
Floor helm to companionway: 29"
Transom opening (avg.): 31"