MacGregorSailors.com

I have built products in China, too.. Taiwan and Mainland China are very different manufacturing regions... and - as you might expect - folks there build what the customer specifies... and do a darn good job at it...

If you are the "MFR" here in the US, for example, and you just toss the design "over the transom" then you are not going to get a very good product built in China.. as buyer, you have to really specify all the aspects of product and quality that you want - and also want to pay for.... This is where a lot of products fall down. The buyer has great responsibility to make sure that the product is both right and meets the DESIRED quality level. That is a responsibility that is often lacking on the buyer's part. You do get what you pay for -but you also get what you specify... the specify and quality control parts are tough to do there - from here....

*************

It seems to me that when you are "just" manufacturing in California, that you miss the regional concerns that a lot of places have. It is hard to keep these things in mind, sometimes. On the coast - from Mexico to Florida - up through North Carolina - there is a real NEED for boats that can get "off the water"... It's a huge marketing and sales window that sits open. When you go to Galveston and see all the boats that were up on the roads.. and you realize that that was the case for a LOT of people.... you can see that there might be a real need for promotion to that market segment - and that there is room for larger boats as well... Not everyone can afford Shannons - or have trailers for same.. It would be possible to sell multiple YEARS of MacGregor production to just that segment - with promotions..... yet we don't have a Texas Dealer, even...

I am sure that Roger knows all this... and chooses to do what he does very well... Still.... there is a window. I suppose that part of the answer is that the "slick trendy sailing mags" don't have all the advertising pages for Trailer Sailors.. OK by me....

--jerry

--jerry

Having been in a position of owning a) an Odin/Imexus b) a Macgregor 26x c) a Hunter 356 and d) visited the owner of the Mach 28 in Australia,perhaps I can add some insight to the discussion. I am NOT a dealer by the way, nor have I ever been. I'm just a boat whore I am more like the original poster who has always just tried to find the best value for the money. The order I owned my boats was the Mac26x, the Hunter 356 and then the Odin 820. So you can SEE that I'm not particularly religious (nor faithful for that matter) about one versus the other. I HAVE kept the Odin the longest (5 years) and it has been the best boat for my situation over my ten years of owning sailboats. Perhaps the best way to see how I came to my decision was to look at a website I created five years ago in response to people who wanted to know what the Odin was like and how it compared to the Mac/Hunter. I haven't changed the website in five years and everything there still holds true: Here's the site and be sure to click on all the links on the left hand side as well:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0ocfh/

The Mac26x was what got me INTO sailing in the first place. It was an inexpensive way to test the water and see if I'd like sailing......and boy did I !! You still can't beat the value of that boat. But, I wanted something that was built better, had more options, more storage, better components, more weight for stability, better interior etc etc and the Odin for me was the way to go. When I compared both boats optioned out similarly, there was a $5000 difference between the two (believe me, I did the spreadsheets on that one to be sure). Now, again, that was in 2004 and the Euro has gone up since then so I don't know what the comparison would be today. But $5000 difference was a no-brainer for me back then for what I got in exchange.

I also happened to be in Australia in 2006 and had the opportunity to meet the builder of the Mach 28 and spent an afternoon with him and his boat. Like Art said, there were cost issues about bringing it to the USA and at that time he was also talking about a Chinese production angle. The boat did not offer anything more than the Odin in my opinion for alot more cost at that time. Maybe those cost structures have changed. It was a very nice design and layout, but it wasn't enough to move me off my Odin.

I also did a review for my Odin-mates on the Hunter Edge when Hunter Hull #2 came through town on a promotional tour. Here's the website for that one: http://web.me.com/deacm/Hunter/Welcome.html Again, this review will be of less value because I was only comparing the Hunter Edge to the Odin for my fellow curious Odin-owners.

I don't know the latest about the future of Odin. I know there were some issues between the parent company in Germany and the production folks in Poland and they split up into two entities last I checked, Odin vs Imexus (Oct 2007 when I was over visiting my son in Germany during what coincidentally happened to be a major boat show where the Odin and Imexus were). Both organizations seemed to be doing all the right things and seemed to be on a growth path then.

Now, here's the good/bad news. I have loved my Odin dearly these last five years, but last summer I just got married and as fate would have it, I got married to a woman who has been sailing far longer than me. We now have some cruising dreams in our future, which will necessitate a larger boat for longer term travel. Sooooooo.........we are having the fight right now as to if we can have TWO boats. One for the Great Lakes and my Odin for me to take down the Erie Canal, Lake Champlain, Lake Erie, Chesapeake etc etc as I have been doing the past five years. If you want to save my marraige, please make me an offer I can't refuse because as much as I love the Odin, it's a tad big for a dinghy on the davits of a 36 foot cruiser . Let me know if you have any further questions in your pursuit of a boat, I'd be happy to answer as I have definitely been in ALL of the partisan camps !! And again, here's that website for my initial comparison: http://mysite.verizon.net/res0ocfh/ I forget how to embed the site as a clickable link. Sorry.

Just as an aside, check out the pic of the interior of the Seaward 26... look familiar?

When I saw Art's posting this morning about the Hake/Seaward 26RK I checked out the website. I think it looks very nice...seems a little more "traditional".

But I like having the capability to motor at 15+ mph.

I think that when I was shopping for a sailboat if I had bought a Precision 23 I would have been very happy and loved my boat....

I think that if had bought a Catalina 250 I would have been very happy and loved my boat...

I think that if I had bought a Hunter 240 I would have been very happy and loved my boat...

Obviously looking back at the choices we had or looking at other options now when we already own and love our Mac's it is easy to say that the Mac is the best choice...but I think I would have been happy with any of those others or the Odin or the Seaward...

But obviously the Mac is the best boat...

For what it's worth.

Cheers,
Jim

From what I understand, if you've layed down the Mac a few times you have been in a scarier position than 90% of keel boat sailors cause the Mac lays over really easily compared to heavier boats, and when heavier boats lean over as much as the Mac they usually flip!

I have seen water on the windows of my Mac twice and found it pretty scary ! I am always just so pleased to get back to an even keel and break out laughing...not cause it's funny just cause I'm dry and a wee bit scared!

The Mac is pretty tender for a 26 footer!
Q1

Lake racing is not as scary as ocean racing, and there are three ways of laying her over. The first is kind of fun, and happens when you've plenty of speed, probably on a reach, and you just wash your windows a bit without getting the sails wet. You see 45 degrees on the screamometer. As soon as you head her up into the wind it pops right back up. The second is when you've got your spinnaker out, and that's a little scarier, as you have to drop the spinnaker, or worse let out the sheet, and there's a lot of spinnaker flapping, and noise, and a little controlled chaos. The third is when you've no way on, like when you're just rounding a mark, and suddenly a microburst hits you broadside. That's the worst because you're laid over pushing leeward, and your cockpit is scooping water in like a starving teenager. Your rudder is absolutely useless even though you keep fiddling with it hoping it will catch somehow. If your motor's down your prop is probably out of the water too. It's not like you can stand on the daggerboard, and flip the hull. Your only hope is to haul those sails in before you catch some shoreline, or worse. Eventually it comes back up, but that's not something I want to try on the ocean.

Richard

After you have spent few years with the Macgregor 26 X or M, Which next boat (used or new) will you buy if you got a bonus of 20k or 30k. ?? and why?

Captain Phoenix wrote:After you have spent few years with the Macgregor 26 X or M, Which next boat (used or new) will you buy if you got a bonus of 20k or 30k. ?? and why?

It would have to be an anual increase of 30K, otherwise I would just use the bonus to outfit my Mac with more toys, new sails, bigger engine etc. Having owned my '03M since new I have come to realize that the Mac and all its' competitors are skinny boats and since that is the one aspect of these boats I dislike my heart aches for a wider beam. An annual increase would put me in the range for owning 36' with 11'-12' of beam plus the extra cash required to maintain it and pay for a slip. Of course now I have this to consider:

Québec 1 wrote:From what I understand, if you've layed down the Mac a few times you have been in a scarier position than 90% of keel boat sailors cause the Mac lays over really easily compared to heavier boats, and when heavier boats lean over as much as the Mac they usually flip!
Q1

I am in the Pacific Northwest and the Mac suits this venue well and takes me anywhere that I would take a larger boat and I have no intentions of ever being out of site of land. If I could afford it I would have a bigger boat but still that is a lot of finacial eggs in one basket that can only be used 2-6 months of the year depending on what Mother Nature gives us. "Return on investment" Maybe I would be better off using the bonus income to escape the winters here. The venue has a big impact on ones decision for boat selection.

what are you really after mr Phoenix? are you doing market research or something? you said that you were buying a MAC, on another thread you claimed to be looking for a charter, and wanted people to compare the MAC with 40 foot cruisers for you. disingenuous is a word that comes to mind. what's the real deal?

c130king wrote:...... if I had bought a Precision 23 I would have been very happy and loved my boat....
I think that if had bought a Catalina 250 I would have been very happy and loved my boat...
I think that if I had bought a Hunter 240 I would have been very happy and loved my boat...
.......
But obviously the Mac is the best boat...
For what it's worth.
Cheers,
Jim

I have had that problem but it involved wives not boats and I thought I would be happy at the time, now with boats I can honestly say I have always loved the one I am going to get next the best. The nice thing about the MAC is that it doesn't complain (at least out loud) when you make it change, if you like it to do something and it can, it will. It doesn't have special times or moods unless I make them happen by my carelessness or laziness. And if I want to go somewhere else, it does too.
Captain Phenoix - if your are doing market research, I suggest you use the search function, things are pretty civil here but the moderators have been know to have little patience with trolling and baiting. If your shopping or have real questions, try and keep them consistant with your story line.

HI All,

Thanks for your time and replies.

Well, I am not doing a market research but it's not easy to chose a sailboat for a beginner like me without any experience yet.

We don't have islands where I am, we have only 100 Km of long coats, i went to the Marina and i saw some 40 feet sailboat as Bavaria, Beneteau and others... but i didn't see a MAC yet.

I went 3 days ago on the Bavaria 43 feet and I can tell you it was so boring, we can't come close to the beach because of the keel and we were all the time alone in the middle sea, away from other powerboat. There are only 20 sailboat in our area (only 2 of them were sailing) and hundreds of powerboat.

I think the MAC can be more suitable for my area, regardless the price issue, even i have been offered to buy the Beneteau Oceanis 40 feet for 100,000$, fully equipped.

At least with the Mac , i will be able to stay close to the coast and stay inside the action where other powerboats are.

Thanks again for all your help.

Captain
I am not sure where you are. You have posted from San Diego and from Beirut. If you are in Beirut now and plan to sail there, there are several members who can give advice on sailing a MAC in the Med. That big sail boat might have been boring but it has far more conviences than the MAC and you should understand that even though a MAC will go fast with the motor, it generally does not go fast with the sails. At least not in power boat style anyway. It is a great compromise boat. You can put a new one in a container with its trailer and have it delivered but because of the all in costs, it would be cheaper to look at something European with a drop down centerboard or swing keel. I can understand your buying difficulities....so
I would suggest that you take some sailing lessons first to see if you even like sailing and then try chartering something small in the Greek Islands which should be a short ferry ride away. I have sailed near Beirut and if I were buying a boat for that area I would not plan on running up on shore much, a coastal cruiser with a bulb keel would anchor close enough, as for shore excersions that is what a inflatable is for.