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royhud wrote:Everyone can read into the headlines of this posting whatever they want. It's true you have a better chance of being killed in US cities, but when in Mexico you are guilty until proven innocent. If you are in an automobile accident, you may go to jail for quite some time until things are sorted out, so I was always advised by Mexicans to run away from an accident. I have driven both sides of Mexico all the way to Central America, once on a motorcycle and I used to stay in Bahia de Los Angeles down in Baja and camp for weeks at a time. The boating and fishing were amazing, a paradise for sure, but I now would rather not take that adventure or chance the possible trouble in Mexico. The majority of Mexicans are wonderful people, but get caught in the wrong situation and it's not the USA. Don't expect a get out of jail card, nor, can one arm himself in Mexico. It was many years ago, but I had a female friend who was kidnapped for about a week, and 3 Mexicans pretty much did whatever they wanted, but they didn't kill her. No, I like the USA and go to Florida or our wonderful southern states. I know it's a long way for western boaters, but it's the USA. Just my opinion.

I too have spent a few weeks and months and those trips totaling years in Mexico.
It is not the USA and then. . . They might have some good ideas after all... But surly NOT many BTW As for carrying a gun dont get caught in Texas or anywhere else being a resident from some other state with a gun concealed or not. . .Are you also implying you feel you were safer years ago in Mexico than now. Hard to believe because Now there is a Gingo on every corner.
Ahh but your statement have a car accident and you go to jail? Surly your kidding those of us who live and own in Mexico.
BTW You must have car Insurance on your foreign plated vehicle to enter Mexico and it must be paid in full for the duration of your Visa.
Lewis and Lewis is pretty much your get out of jail free card unless you deserve to stay there.
On the other hand I dont have to have insurance on my Mexican plated car but I dang sure do .. because it is my get out of jail free card.
WE should absolutely do some of the same things they are doing in Mexico here. BTW they dont have 4,000,000 illegals living and working in Mexico.
You have an accident and you don't have insurance to cover who you hit you should be up ship's creek. But if you or anyone thinks its scary to drive thru Mexico now ( and you. . . . say you rode a Motorcycle thru Latin America?????) Mexico is nothing!

Divecoz, it is not only about Mexicans. 26 of the kidnapped were San Diego county residents. Some have not been recovered. Maybe because we live in south Orange County, we read/hear about these events a lot more than many US residents.

I included a link above to an article with a frightening tale of American tourists taveling in Baja. You should read it.

There is a war going on south of our border between the drug cartel and the Mexican government. With the tightening of the US/Mexico border, the situation is deteriorating. Yes, the vast majority of tourists experience a safe trip. But violence is increasing. The US State deparment has issued a travel Alert for Mexico. Considering that our government tends to bend over backwards to not offend the Mexican government or its people, this is pretty significant, imo.

US State Department Mexico Travel Alert (scroll down to read alert) http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _3028.html

An excerpt:

U.S. citizens residing and traveling in Mexico should exercise caution when in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times. Violence by criminal elements affects many parts of the country, urban and rural, including border areas. In the last twelve months there have been execution-style murders of Mexican officials in Tamaulipas, Michoacan, Baja California, Guerrero (particularly Acapulco), Nuevo Leon (especially in and around Monterrey), and other states. Though there is no evidence that U.S. citizens are specifically targeted, Mexican and foreign bystanders have been injured or killed in some violent attacks demonstrating the heightened risk in public places. In its effort to combat violence, the Government of Mexico has deployed military troops in various parts of the country. U.S. citizens are advised to cooperate with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways.

In recent years, dozens of U.S. citizens have been kidnapped in Mexico and many cases remain unresolved. Moreover, new cases of disappearances and kidnap-for-ransom continue to be reported. No one can be considered immune from kidnapping on the basis of occupation, nationality, or other factors. Criminals have been known to follow and harass U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles, particularly in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana. U.S. citizens who believe they are being followed should notify Mexican officials as soon as possible. U.S. citizens should make every attempt to travel on main roads during daylight hours, particularly the toll (“cuota”) roads, which are generally more secure. It is preferable for U.S. citizens to stay in well-known tourist destinations and tourist areas of the cities with more adequate security, and provide an itinerary to a friend or family member not traveling with them. U.S. citizens should avoid traveling alone as a means to better ensure their safety. Refrain from displaying expensive-looking jewelry, large amounts of money, or other valuable items.


Re: the bold print (my emphasis), the Mexican military has been deployed to take control of many police stations where Mexican police are working with or are members of the drug cartel.

Read more on that site. Of course I'm not telling people not to go and neither is the US government. However, I do believe US citizens should be informed of the risks.

11 years ago, we headed down Baja for one of the most memorable, wonderful sea kayaking trips I've ever experienced and will always remember. It is absolutely right to say that the people are warm and friendly and though my Spanish is very limited, I had no trouble communicating with the locals. But I will not go until what's happening down there now is settled.

jackie m

Another picture from Lake Mead



jackie m

Jackie I understand your point but dont think for a moment that when they say San Diego County Residents they mean to sayit all Anglos... thats the spin.
Did you read as well the link Rich made ? You can also read from time to time some of this in The Mexico City News.
Some times what they write is to sensationalize sometimes to be PC you have to discern what they are writing about. Legal Mexicans living in San Diego County would be called what? Even if-ffey or out right illegal Mexicans living in San Diego County would be called Residents....there of.

divecoz, I did not see in the US State Department Alert that the US citizens they were referring to who had been abducted, killed, assaulted, etc. were any particular race. The warning was directed at ALL US Citizens. And the US State Department isn't looking for ratings to sell their webspace. The article in SurferMagazine described a horrific incident involving US Citizens with names that did not sound "Mexican" (as you say). Note, much of the violence is occuring in northern Mexico in and around border cities. Unfortunately, we have to take that route if towing.

From UPI:

FBI warns of kidnappings in Tijuana

From CBS
Incidents involving victims with non"Mexican" sounding last names.
Mexico Crime Wave Has Tourists on Edge

Assaults on American tourists have brought hard times to hotels and restaurants that dot Mexican beaches just south of the border from San Diego. ... includes a list of incidents that are quite brazen including this one...

Lori Hoffman, a San Diego-area emergency room nurse, said she was sexually assaulted Oct. 23 by two masked men in front of her boyfriend, San Diego Surfing Academy owner Pat Weber, who was forced to kneel at gunpoint for 45 minutes. They were at a campground with about 30 tents, some 200 miles south of the border.

The men shot out windows of the couple's trailer and forced their way inside, ransacked the cupboards and left with about $7,000 worth of gear, including computers, video equipment and a guitar.
......

News of harrowing assaults on American tourists has begun to overshadow that appeal in the northern part of the peninsula, home to drug gangs and the seedy border city of Tijuana. The comparatively isolated southern tip, with its tony Los Cabos resort, remains safer and is still popular with Hollywood celebrities, anglers and other foreign tourists.

Local media and surfing Web sites that trumpeted Baja in the past have reported several frightening crimes that U.S. and Mexican officials consider credible. Longtime visitors are particularly wary of a toll road near the border that runs through Playas de Rosarito - Rosarito Beach.

A video interview with Hugo Torres, mayor of Rosarito who has stated he is prepared to risk his own life, explains new measures being developed to combat the violence in Baja including a plan to deal with those pretending to be Mexican police who are attacking American tourists...

http://www.kusi.com/news/goodmorning/13 ... eo=YLO&t=a

Taking steps to increase security for tourists:
http://www.bajatimes.com/articlesDetail.asp?sid=527

I wish my Macgregor had wings to reach La Paz.

jackie m

bostonjock, regarding lifting your Lab out of the water...

we use pfd's with grab handles on the back just for that purpose. What about rigging a pulley system where you can hook onto the handle and crank your lab back onto the boat?

Or do you think your lab could climb out of the water on a platform like this (folds up and can be stored out of way and will support our weight)




jackie m

Jackie maybe go to the Sonora side instead?
BTW 5 woman killed / gun down this past week Outside Chicago at a Lane Bryant store. One gun men never (as of yet )found.
I drove from Matomoros to Playa Del Carmen caught the car ferry and made it to Cozumel stayed 4 months and drove back to Chicago. Close to 2000 miles aross Mexico each direction and Not tourist Mexico where did I get ripped off ? YOU GOT IT Alabama!!! Put down your chips spin the wheel...

Slow Down Folks!!!

I think this should be a discussion about trailering a boat down the Baja Penninsula, not about dogs, or being ripped off in Alabama.

Some, or many, have had a wonderful experience. Hurray!!

Still, I think that potential travellers should be aware of the risks, and there are risks. Just like there are risks in crossing a street.

The U.S State Department has issued travel advisories to U.S. citizens travelling into Baja.

I don't think these should be taken lightly.

The travel warnings have already been posted above.

Dennis

Latest murder comes on the heels of a violent Carnival
by Laura Maggi and Brendan McCarthy, Times-Picayune

Thursday February 07, 2008, 6:43 AM
A gunman opened fire Wednesday morning and killed a 26-year-old man driving a rental car in the Lower Garden District, sending the car careening into a nearby building.

The fatal shooting, the 21st murder in New Orleans this year, occurred closely on the heels of a trying Carnival season for police, one in which four people were murdered and 12 others injured in shootings in the past five days, according to police records.


Today's Feb 7th so that's a little more than a murder ever other day in the all American City of New Orleans. It's also important to remember that more Sailors die in sailboat accidents than people who don't sail.....

MY foreign ports of call will probably be in Canada.

There's too much of America to sail in . . . enough such that I don't feel the need to visit foreign ports, simply for the sake of saying I did so, or to enjoy bad laws, poor water or non-english speaking bartenders.

I look at the Great Lakes and the east coast of America and I see enough water to get lost in for the rest of my life . . . more safely.

..

SURV69 wrote:enjoy bad laws, poor water or non-english speaking bartenders..

That knocks California off the tour list!

Six dead, 2 injured in Kirkwood shooting
From staff reports
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
02/08/2008

FEBRUARY 7, 2008 - Police officers at the scene of a shooting at Kirkwood City Hall.
(Robert Cohen/P-D)
Six people, including two Kirkwood police officers, a Kirkwood city council woman and the gunman, were killed tonight at Kirkwood City Hall, a St. Louis County police spokeswoman said about 9:25 p.m. Two others were wounded. Add one of the wounded at St. John's Mercy Medical center is in critical condition


heck....I'm taking St Louis off my vacation list!

Rich,

I don't think any subscriber here is so stupid that they do not realize there is violence in the U.S. I posted the article with one purpose and that was simply as a heads-up so that travelers could make informed decisions, something I appreciate. If someone announced to the forum that they have found what could possibly be a deadly design flaw on the Mac if placed under certain conditions, do you respond by listing all the design flaws on other boat designs?

No one including the US Government is saying you can't go. Hijacking this thread to change the subject by listing violence in the US is a pretty lame effort to sidetrack a topic that is intended to help travelers make an informed decision. Why would you object to that?


jackie m

jackie m wrote: Hijacking this thread to change the subject by listing violence in the US is a pretty lame effort to sidetrack a topic that is intended to help travelers make an informed decision. Why would you object to that?

I have no objection at all to the topic of issues raised in this thread, it is an important one....I'm just helping to put the "Risk" in perspective that's all. Not everyone has first hand Mexico experience and tend to view all of Mexico as a Tijuana Border town. I don’t consider it hijacking a thread to present balance to what I view as Mexico travel hysteria. The people in Mexico, and Baja in particular, feed their families off of US tourism and it is far too easy to try and make Mexico into something that’s it not. Anyone in Europe that reads the US new accounts of our killings could say the same things about not wanting to come to the US because of all the deaths squads, Gangs, and random mall and school shootings from some countries point of view WE are just as bad a Mexico when it comes to crime, I know, I have family in Italy and they think I live in some version of the Running Man movie when they read about the violence in the US. I see how perceptions are formed right or wrong by the news and reality, if often not even in the same universe.

How many times has someone here had some type of large tragedy or event in your home state and then have family and relatives call from all over the USA to ask if you are ok? From the image they get from watching the coverage of the event, they think your whole state has either been completely consumed buy the wildfires, or hit by a tornado, flooded, or devastated by the tragedy-de-jour. This same thing is happening here, in my view, with the Mexico issue. So all I did was site a few examples of USA violence to show how anything can be blown out of proportion by the presentation of the data.

We didn’t drive at night in Mexico on our trip and we took the exact same type of precautions I would have taken driving through any major US city…and we all know there are areas that even the Police don’t like to drive through.

Anyway…I apologize if you took something personal. I am just sensitive to the good people and families in Mexico scraping by day to day that rely on the US tourist dollars to feed their families and hate to see them portrayed as something they are not.

Regards

Rich Boren
S/V THIRD DAY
www.pearson365.com
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/svthirdday/
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