Just where are the raw materials for those nice HUGE Prius Batteries comming from...ahhh....turns out the beloved Prius has a much larger "environmental footprint" to build than your run of the Mill Smog-belching SUV.....but the people that drive them really "FEEL GOOD" about themselves, and that after all is what the Religion of MMGW is all about...feelings and Faith.
Yes, from a manufacturing perspective. But those batteries are mainly a way to recapture and store the energy that's wasted every time it's necessary to slow, or stop, that 2-ton machine. Surely that's where the beneficial trade-off occurs.
Meanwhile, the first attempts at any new technology are understandably inferior to their potential, once economies of scale are achieved. Aren't the disadvantages of battery MFG offsetting imports of oil? So those negative MFG impacts are the costs of improving our self-sufficiency and strategic posture?
Frank C wrote:Yes, from a manufacturing perspective. But those batteries are mainly a way to recapture and store the energy that's wasted every time it's necessary to slow, or stop, that 2-ton machine. Surely that's where the beneficial trade-off occurs.
Meanwhile, the first attempts at any new technology are understandably inferior to their potential, once economies of scale are achieved. Aren't the disadvantages of battery MFG offsetting imports of oil? So those negative MFG impacts are the costs of improving our self-sufficiency and strategic posture?
Don't get me wrong...if I was in the market for a new small car (I'm getting ready to donate mine to charity) I would consider the Prius...simply because I like cool new technology, but I would do so knowing that I wasn't really doing anything to "Save the Planet"...but I would get to drive in the worthless car-pool lane!
Yes, from a manufacturing perspective. But those batteries are mainly a way to recapture and store the energy that's wasted every time it's necessary to slow, or stop, that 2-ton machine. Surely that's where the beneficial trade-off occurs.
And the batteries are a significant part of the weight of the machine. Someday capacitors may start replacing batteries but not yet.
Well folks, I guess it's time to hear from one of those Prius owners, ME
I have owned it since January 05 and consider it a very good car. The best mileage I have ever produced (and I use that word purposely) was 61MPG. In order to get it I had to drive very carefully. Coasting to a red lights in order to maintain the momentum of the cars mass if the light turned green before I reached the intersection, etc. The average on the highway is 42. In the city, with stop and go, I can get 60 easily. The electric motor is then the main source of power.
My wife drives the car mostly, and she does not do as well as I. She averages about 39mpg with a twenty mile drive through the city (no highways). I can get 42 easily making the same trip.
My problem with the car is that the batteries are warrantied for 100,000 miles. I intend to have the car for over 150000 miles. That creates a potential problem when I find out what replacements will cost. There are however kits out there that allow owners to add solar panels
Great, it sounds like my son's first car and the family utility car but will it pull a Mac? I am considering the Jeep Liberty with a diesel or Kia something or other with the big 6.
albion wrote:I was coming out of the channel at Catawba Is Lake Erie on Fri and rand agound while in the center of the channel. I did have both rudders down as it was very windy and wanted to be able to steer. I was only motoring when the rudders got stuck in the mud.I never even intended going out on the lake but son in law wanted to take a trip in the channel before we took the boat out of the marina. I also noticed the sand banks were above water & have not seen that before.
Actually, Lake Erie is above normal levels at this time. What you're seeing is a seasonal thing in the western basin. During times of strong winds from the west or southwest, the water is pushed eastward due to the extremely shallow lake (about 24 foot at the islands, 12-18 foot at Toledo). The opposite thing happens with a strong easterly wind which causes water levels to rise. I've seen them completely cover the docks on Put-in-Bay for a day or 2 with sufficiently strong winds.
For those trying to be environmentally friendly - the energy used to build a car ranges from about 1/5 of the energy used to drive 100,000 miles for a large car to about 1/2 for an economical car like the Prius.
So if you replace a economy car you are using more energy than you save if you give up more than 50,000 miles of driving life, not too green.
For my wifes Volvo, we get about 30 mph in town driving, it would take a long time for me to save the energy at 41 mpg to 'pay' for the energy used to build the new car.
REDUCE is the most important part of REDUCE REUSE RECYCLE in this case.
albion wrote:I was coming out of the channel at Catawba Is Lake Erie on Fri and rand agound while in the center of the channel. I did have both rudders down as it was very windy and wanted to be able to steer. I was only motoring when the rudders got stuck in the mud.I never even intended going out on the lake but son in law wanted to take a trip in the channel before we took the boat out of the marina. I also noticed the sand banks were above water & have not seen that before.
Actually, Lake Erie is above normal levels at this time. What you're seeing is a seasonal thing in the western basin. During times of strong winds from the west or southwest, the water is pushed eastward due to the extremely shallow lake (about 24 foot at the islands, 12-18 foot at Toledo). The opposite thing happens with a strong easterly wind which causes water levels to rise. I've seen them completely cover the docks on Put-in-Bay for a day or 2 with sufficiently strong winds.
SCOTT Thanks for telling me that,I did notice the wind was coming from the NE for the first time since I had the boat in our marina.Iwill be in #46.See ya next year. George
Hello,
We own a 2003 Prius. It has smaller batteries and a single electric motor than the newer ones. We get 54 on the highway and 45 in town. We bought it when my wifes car had to be replaced (84 Tempo). I still drive my 84 GMC van and when it came time to replace it, I chose to rebuild it instead. A year later it has a 2000 vortec 5.7 liter replacing the 305 carb engine, 4L80E trans, new paint & interior. I get better milage and more power. I drive less than 5k miles a year which includes work and towing the Mac. During the conversion I set it up to burn E85 but that is not available in my area yet. At home I have fine tuned my oil furnace to burn 1 gallon a day in the coldest part of winter. We get 3 years out of 675 gallons. That is my way of being more green. At the time we bought our Prius, battery replacement was about $2.5k so we are not saving any money over the long run even with the cheaper batts available now.
I think a part of the primus green cost issue is that to some extent you are investing in the technology and in the market for it. For any renewable energy devices to be developed there is going to have to be iterative innovation based upon market experience and demand. Solar Cell technology has seemed to make rapid gains of late as well as LED lighting and the market has both aided and responded accordingly. At least that is what I think……
On the Prius battery issue - the lab lifetime data was 180,000 miles, so for real life I would use 90,000 miles....
At 2.5k for replacement, thats about 25% of the cost of fuel based on 30 mpg and $3 per gallon so it is a decent fraction of the fuel cost of a conventional gas only car.
Again, if you have to replace a car due to reliability or major failure I think these payoff financially in terms of fuel cost.
If you have a well running car with high miles, you can send me your monthly Prius payment instead and Ill spend it at West Marine and post annoying comments on Man Made Climate Change on your behalf.
