Help!! New 26x owner with Battery Question

[BigNige]

Sorry Chuckncole but if you can't work out 12V electrical systems you aren't going to understand any of these posts. Get some help

[Catigale]

[mod] The post above doesnt violate any Board rules, but does violate the spirit of this board being a friendly place to get info and learn no matter what your level of expertise. Im posting this as a Mod comment, as I am pretty certain that Heath, Board Owner, would agree here. If I get dinged on this, this post will collapse to a standard post. Breath holding not recommended.[/mod]

[BigNige]

Whoaa Catigale - No offense intended here! Just trying to be helpful. 12V electrics are very simple and you are going to blind chuckngale with science. Electrics are not everybody's forte. It would be better to get someone along to the boat and take a look That's all I'm saying.

[Catigale]

Sorry if I offended ....you're right about information overload.

I over-reacted a bit since we do pride ourselves here on letting people ask questions and seek information on any level and dont want people chased away. The whole point of the board is to help people fix their boats and learn what they need to know

No offense meant - Cat...

[Frank C]

Sorry Chuckncole but if you can't work out 12V electrical systems you aren't going to understand any of these posts. Get some help

Big -
FWIW, the OP was already following your untimely advise, getting some help, which is possibly more effusive on this Board than most. The help offered on page 1 of this thread is characteristic of these Members. Your advise is not.

No question here is too silly, and they're always addressed politely ... that's just the way this group has evolved. Everyone kinda likes it that way. That's probably because, for many of us, the Mac was our first boat. I guess we expect to help a novice because we 'can identify.'

As a new boat owners, it's for them to judge whether that help is 'too much' or too overwhelming. Colleen already wrote that she was printing the advise to used at the boat, a perfectly logical approach to learning about this rather basic issue. And, she had already alluded to possibly hiring a professional. Since that's never available when most needed, it's entirely appropriate for her to try it alone. That's the way most of us learned about 12V ... probably you too.

I believe the Moderator's warning was understated. Unlike many internet sites, this Membership is overwhelmingly contributory, and your advise was off-key. Please take the time to read more here, learning the tone (and the tune) of this Membership.

[chuckncole]

Hello Mac friends,
I /we appreciate all the solid advise up to this point.

Here is an update...

WE do not have a perKo switch. Following the red cable from the engine under the aft to the 1st battery by the galley ( remember we have a 99 mac) we find no switches on the walls nor in the compartment ( under the seat). From that battery#1 we follow red cable fwd to the dinette seas compartment where battery#2 is. No perco switch. There is a 1 inch by 2 inch black box by us marine. ( i forget the name) with wire going in and out of it.However, there are no buttons nor switches affiliated with it. There are wires that attach to the battery. LOts that attach to one side. ( they have plastic tubes associated with them I think may contain fuses)...
Battery's both needed water and we added it.
Re: the fuse panel under the vhf : all were removed / checked and all fused appeared to look fine.

A back ground on the demise of the interior lights. they appeared to work fine for 3 weeks. until we noticed that they dimmed and now are completely gone.
My DH met me there at lunch and did not have his elec box so no votage regulater type doodad.

I think we will buy a tricle type battery charger and see if that works...
if it does its sort of a bandaid on the iseeue since the mysterey still would exist if we have the type of batteries that get charged while we are motoring???

It would by a bummer if we couldnt sail out to the cove at pebble beach and " camp" anchor for the night... ( one goal of mine)

So... as of now we still have no interior battery power. We will see if a external battery charger will fix the lack or electrical resources.... but the question will still remail.... can we recharge our interior light battery/ radio battery by simply motoring??? hmmmmm

I will keep you posted. ANd in the end should we hire a marine electrician ( whom have limited time as it is) I will definitely share their finding with all.

Sorry my request for assistance created a little stir... All of your help is genuiniely appreciated.... I printed your wonderful ideas off andI sat in boat with DH going thru each suggestion. and testing them all out....

There will be lots of people that have knowedge and expertise in different fields. Sharing what you know honestly, helps those that do not know everything... Thanks folks... any other suggestions?

[Catigale]

You definitely have some wiring issues - its hard to imagine you have batteries strong enough to turn the motor over but wont power the lights unless fuses or wiring or both are bad.

The next step might be to take the plunge and unscrew the fuseplate and start checking for voltage up behind it. This is something someone with experience could be a great help.

I dont know what your black box with US Marine is - some sort of battery combiner??

[Frank C]

Wait a minute ... that's new info. If everything works for 3 weeks, then gradually dims ... hmmm.

Seems you're correct that the House battery (forward) has simply gone dead. And, it seems it's not getting recharged (at all) by the outboard, or you'd have seen some temporary improvement. Meanwhile, the outboard is charging the Starter battery (aft) just fine.

It's still unclear how the switch panel has been isolated from the Start battery. There MUST be a perko switch somewhere~!??

Somehow ... assure that the switch panel is wired ONLY to the House battery, and not to the Starter ... and you've proven 90 percent of this scenario. Charging the House battery & finding lights working again ... that makes it 100 percent.

The little plastic tubes DO usually contain fuses. You almost surely have a blown fuse in one, maybe more of them.

Sounds like you're describing a combiner, but it needs to connect to both batteries to do it's job. Then too, it might have a blown fuse. They usually have two LED lights, one red, one green. You might find a label on the backside of that little box. In any case, it's not working as now installed. Confirm up to this point (w/brand name) and I might be able to find you a wiring diagram for it.

[Lease]

I'd keep searching for that selector switch. From the description, the batteries have been wired properly, so it is pretty much unthinkable that there is no means to divert charge to both. Since the failing battery is described as near new, it doesn't seem right that it would be not taking a charge.

There are lots of hidey holes where selector switches could be located. Mine is in the top left storage hole in the galley, facing forward. I would definitely be looking in every orrifice between the two batteries. What about the switch panel for the interior lights, radios, etc? Could there be another switch that says 'Power'?

Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned the possibility of battery post switches, These are mounted on the positive terminal main cable at the batteries themselves. They are a round knurled knob (points there for double silent 'K's surely?), usually green in colour.

Good luck

This post has a tone rating of 'Upbeat'

[Catigale]

Frank has nailed it. Your engine is starting from one battery, the other battery is not getting charged since it isnt connected to the alternator on the engine. Putting a trickle charger on your house battery (the one not hooked to the engine) will give you your lights

You could also use automotive jumper cables and connect the two batteries - positive to positive, negative to negative and everything would come alive and confirm also.

Long term, you do need to figure out a way to keep that house battery charged.

[chuckncole]

The combiner that we have is the West Marine Combiner 50

I am not sure that it works, though. I have yet to see the two led's light up on it.

The problem with the battery may have been that it was low about one and a half water bottles of water. I filled the battery, but didnt have time to check it out any more than that.
chuck

[Bawgy]

You may want to drain the battery of Water and get the proper electrolyte to fill it with . I have in the past put water in my car battery but I can walk a lot further than I can swim

[tangentair]

I would be curious to see if charging the house battery doesn't fix the problem. The combiner may not let the house battery be charged if it senses that the current needed is to high. That being said, I would definately plan an electrical rewire in the near future. There are quite a few threads about preferences or ways to wire and I have mine. There is also like a correct/standard way.
I have the both off /1 and 2 on but isolated from each other/ both on and combined model "perko" switch. I have to switch to both to charge the 2nd battery but the motor's alternators through 2 fuses (mine and the motors) is directly connected to the 1. 1 powers all the necessary electronics and 2 runs the lights and stuff. I do not trust the switch (or the switchees) not to disconnect the battery when the motor is running that is why it is directly connected. I also use a trickle charger with shore power.
That also said, once the batteries are charged, I would check the electrolyte with one of those cheap hydrometers from any auto parts store or even pull them and have a tire and battery shop check it with one of theirs and have them also load test both batteries.
As for the rewire, well, if chuck or colleen want to post a full description of the boat's electrial loads, I will be glad to suggest a liberal wireing plan so that those more conservative readers can correct it. Power to the people.

[argonaut]

My '97 only had a single battery with no fancy round battery switch or anything. All wires came to the battery, there wasn't even a switch panel.
So... if there isn't a big red battery switch installed, that's the way it came.
No big deal, there are lots of fixes. I went at least a year with two paralleled batteries in a single bank.. and a cheap three stage charger from wally mart.
Only requires cabling red to red and black to black, no switches to fiddle with, the whole thing charges when the motor runs.
I later added a three switch/two bank battery setup and a DC switch/fuse panel but those are frills... a person's gotta sail!
If you're concerned draining the whole bank accidentally they also sell emergency starter packs pretty cheap so you can crank the motor in a pinch.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

I would be curious to see if charging the house battery doesn't fix the problem. The combiner may not let the house battery be charged if it senses that the current needed is to high.

this is true...when my house battery died the combiner was not able function properly to charge it.

that is, i have a 1/2/all/off Perko switch with a WM-50 combiner in between the engine start and house batteries.

my engine start battery was good, but my house battery was very, very weak.

so...i tried to re-charge the system thru the engine start battery. the WM-50 Combiner acted funny (chirping sounds) when running current thru to the house battery. after a while, i broke down and purchased a new house battery (it had been 5 years old, that's the life span right?).

with a new house battery, everything works fine now.

my suggestion to you, make sure your house battery is good. if not, buy a new one for $50-70.

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki