MacGregorSailors.com

....I then made one for the second black boat....

The second black boat? hmmmm Thanks for the heads up Mike. Now where might that boat be............??

Did she have it??

Hi to whoever wants to know where the other black boat is, it is in Marina del Rey, CA

Moderator wrote:Commercial product info deleted. Please refer to commercial website, or send PM to Dealer.
Those interested may please refer to page 1 of this thread for related info.

WE ABSOLUTELY ENCOURAGE DEALERS TO CONTRIBUTE to the forums AS INDIVIDUALS.
Answering sailing and performance questions, contributing expertise for modifications, recommendations of effective motors or props ... all are encouraged as member-to-member exchanges. We all appreciate hearing General Factory info on the Macgregor products too, but only when it is NON-SPECIFIC as to a Dealership.

Please refrain from announcing any product or service information SPECIFIC to ONE dealership. Thanks. ~fc

Mike Inmon

Hey Mike,

You mentioned a self tacking jib as one of your experiments.

We have used the rotating mast ( masthead, taller,larger main with battens,self tacking jib etc ) in so many versions we can only repeat ourselves.

How did that work out?
I like that the mast 28 has it - Sailing from my keyboard, that is.

Any insight you can give would be appreciated...

I'm also curious about the self-tacker and how it works. I get the general idea - I'd just like to see one mounted on a Mac. If it's a reality, can you post some pics? Thanks!

~Bob

Mike,
You know there are a handful of us that regularly race our Macs, and haven't your wealth of experience ... Who knows why, probably just to see how much we can get out of 'em, and to avenge some excessive criticism?
Short of altering the hull shape, any suggestions you have, or successes are welcome? I got new rudders and I am seeking a smaller motor (required at our marina). Now am looking at new sails with more roach. The lead keel may lead to more problems than advantages, but what about your foresail, and spinnaker/ any suggestions?

Hi,
It does help to do most of the performance mods but some are more bang for the buck! This is the question that we have the most fun with. Your local waters govern the direction as well as your budget. My best bet for the older Macs is the stock M mast and main. If you have an M you are in debate city.

The lead keel or weighted daggerboard is in last place IMHO. Fiberglass weighted daggerboard: You can't get enough lead in it to do the job. All lead daggerboard is about 600 lbs (actually that will be 6" longer than std daggerboard to weigh 600 lbs) This is what I use at this time. It was the first thing I put on my M back in 03. I changed it out to a lead bulb of about 500 lbs with fiberglass board and extra 6" last year and changed it back to lead for this year. Reason is: daggerboard is much smoother through the water upwind. We sail in waves here in Marina del Rey, CA. However, if you sail in smooth water, the bulb is much faster! No contest untill the chop builds up.

It is a lot of trouble to make these parts, lot of money, the boat no longer has enough foam to float it, the powering speed is much reduced because you can't easily raise and lower the keel/daggerboard. By the way, both of my M's did not have the 300 lbs of fixed ballast. I think the best M will be a stock hull with 300lbs of fixed ballast and a stock fiberglass board, not 6" of extra length like mine. You just lose too much versatilty to do that kind of stuff and spend that much for such a small gain in sailing speed.

I'd stick to the sail plan for a speed gain. The best sail plan for you depends on the amount of wind you sail in! Here we are 8 to 12 mph and now my boat is dialed in on sail area vs PHRF penalty. 16/16ths rig with massive roach on the main. The jib has almost no overlap, but has several battens and a straight leach. The jib cars are on Garhauer adjustable tracks which we play sailing upwind, we don't even cleat the when racing. The lead control is held to control a constant heel. The main traveler is used evn less.

More later. Mike Inmon

thanks Mike! Great stuff. I had absolutely no success with a genoa sailing to weather, and so am encouraged by going to a jib. We tried to maintain constant heel (about 30 degrees) with the main, and pulling then releasing in puffs. The traveler was of little use and was usually locked to center unless we had time and muscle to pull it to the windward side. i didn't know that jibs came with battens too? makes sense!

Our winds are fickle, and it is not unusual to have two boats on the same course downwind in almost opposite directions. The spinnakers are rarely truly downwind so i feel that I might have some advantage sailing an assym. The phrf penalty is 12 pts for adding a spinnaker.

Thanks for the 'insight' Mike.......

As well as the expression of 'support' we all appreciate.

Extra effort is always appreciated.

now, For my next trip down to Colton.........may have to scoot over to MDR to peek at the 'other' black boat.

Currie wrote:I'm also curious about the self-tacker and how it works. I get the general idea - I'd just like to see one mounted on a Mac. If it's a reality, can you post some pics? Thanks!

~Bob

I took several pics of the Pearla Noir when it was in Friday Harbour including some close-ups of the self tacking jib track and other rigging. Problem is I am a zeek and cannot post pics but I do know how to e-mail them for anyone who wishes to have them. PM me with an external e-mail address to send them as I cannot send them through this sites e-mail system.

Hi Moderator,
Sorry about that! I just run mouth sometimes and did not mean to try to advertise. Been meaning to adv on your excellent site anyway, just haven't don it yet. Can you call me and I'll do it!
Mike Inmon

Gazmn wrote:Hey Mike,

You mentioned a self tacking jib as one of your experiments.

We have used the rotating mast ( masthead, taller,larger main with battens,self tacking jib etc ) in so many versions we can only repeat ourselves.

How did that work out?
I like that the mast 28 has it - Sailing from my keyboard, that is.
Any insight you can give would be appreciated...

Roger has made a number of the self tacking jib systems over the years, even on his own 65/70 Anthem. First thing we do when racing is disconnect it But, they are wonderful! I am certain Roger's next self-tacking jib will be perfect. This is the problem with all known (to me ) systems: Just numbers pulled out of my ear. The wind loads/forces on the jib pull the clew to the forestay/tack at 100 lbs. 10ft from clew to tack gives 80lbs forward and 25lbs inward. The forward 80 is what we sail with and the 25lbs will pull the clew inward a little more than we want it to be. There is a force pushing the sail outward but slightly reduced by the inward component of the forward force. If a track can be made to curve exactly to match the opossing undesirable inward force and desirable outward force and if friction is reduced to a big fat nothing, problem solved.

But, wait a moment! As soon as tack is started, the wind loads will go to flapping like a flag and as tack is finishing the sail will change direction of pull to sideways/forward, the sail will curve into proper shape and direction of pull will change some more. The forestay will sag off a little as it changes the actual location of the front of the sail. Looks like the ideal is a track that will change its shape with different wind condition and point of sail. We need for the sail to want to go out further than we want it to be. Then we can resist it with a control. Roger has recently made curved bar tracks that almost do it. Iv'e sail quite a bit with them and it will get there eventually. Prediction! Jib will be a 95% blade. Main will be big roach to make up for smaller max haedsail (no genoa). jib is self tacking with 2:1 purchase and winches not needed! At this time Roger is in favor of running backs for racing. I don't think with smaller jib and bigger main the runners are of much use! Bit, I've got this setup on my boat, giant roach main, small jib and I'll add runners just to see if we get improved pointing.

Now my boat has a giant assy spinnaker with 6' pole (see it in the brochure or the DVD) and no runners. We've been out in too much wind several times and have not broken anything yet. Also, my boat has one less layer of fiberglass than stock. This just to try to find any potentiol problems. So, runners are not needed for the M. But maybe it will point higher with them. But they are extra stuff! Todd says runners help. I will trust him and add to my boat. He also has a cute gybing pole on his assy spin for going downwind. I've been using a sym spinn for downwind and the assy for reaching. Think I'll change out that also. It could be that more time lost changing spinn type than extra speed of the symm on a run. The Americas cup boys use both types but they sail with 10 crew, too much weight for my little 26M.
Mike Inmon

Is the Honda 75/90 really new??? Still looks like the old carb version from the website.

The new Honda 70 / 90 model info is here. It is a very different motor. The info has not yet been incorporated into their standard web site.

http://www.honda-marine.com/new_model.html