MacGregorSailors.com

We looked at getting a boat from the Anchorage, but he said he couldn't put the antenna on the mast because of the foam inserts so we went with Super Sport Marine in Kearney. I thought some of the accesories we had put on were done rather sloppily and I had to redo some things.

We looked at getting a boat from the Anchorage, but he said he couldn't put the antenna on the mast because of the foam inserts so we went with Super Sport Marine in Kearney

That's BS, I put a mast top antena on mine quite easily and I don't consider myself a great DIY kind of guy. It was easy to drill through the foam.
I feel I have to add to my previous post about aftermarket stuff. There is all the usual stuff that makes a good dealer of any commodity, but to be a great MacGregor dealer you need to go the extra mile. By that I mean cleaning up the Mac image a bit from being a cheap boat to being a decent boat. The Mac is lacking in refinements some of which should really be done at the factory but have not in the interest of price point. I am talking simple things like a SS latch for the forward hatch so that it can be opened at various heights or risers on the headsail sheet cleats and a channel in the mast for wiring or a 3:1 purchase pully for that heavy daggerboard I could go on but you get the idea. (my biggest pet peave was havng to make these little improvements myself when they should have been done by the factory or a dealer) I went to IKEA a cool store and bought some really nifty storage solutions, found other storage solutions at other stores not to mention the ideas I got from this site. There is so much that can be done to customize these boats but not room here to list them all, my point is a dealer has the opportunity to promote just about anything if he has the enthusiasm for the boat. A dealer could carry an inventory of storage solutions, parts for mods or recommend sources. (my wife has had countless compliments on her curtains she had made) Wouldn't it be convenient if a dealer could either provide or at least tell you where to get what you need for your boat. I could never stop spending on my boat and am always looking for new ways to spend money on it, same as many other owners do. It seems to me that the opportunities for profit are endless in aftermarket merchandise. I get really excited when I dress my boat up for a trip and put all the accessories out, makes me feel proud of my investment.

Bill, if you are contemplating investing and expanding into a first class dealership (it may be late in life now) aftermarket service would be the way to go. Even if you posted pictures of all the mods owners do on your store walls that would be a start, it woud give new buyers an idea of the boats potential. Man, if I were younger and had some financial backing I could show some of you dealers how to sell a Macgregor decked to the nines and how to promote it as more than just a pricepoint boat. There are too many dealers who just want to sell you a boat and send you away, and I could sell them a boat and make them keep comming back to me to spend more money, it's all in the way you market the boat. I find it hard to believe that so many dealers overlook profit opportunities, especially when they translate into post purchase service, what's with people anyway, are they that blind.

Hamin X,

Bluewater Yachts resells a lot of used Macs. When we bought our used boat from them they had two 'on the lot' so to speak for us to choose from. If they don't have one at the time you call, wait a few weeks and they probably will.

I know they have a well cared for and used X headed their way right now. When we were out for 6 days last week we met up with George on 'Escape'. He attended the rendezvous I organized and led in 2003 up here in the San Juans. After taking their X around Vancouver Island, up to Alaska, and up to the Queen Charlottes he and his wife have decided to move up and have bought a 44' power sailer. They live on their boat up here during the summers to escape the desert heat where they live in the winter. He indicated that 'Escape' was headed to BWY to be sold.

BWY does not represent beaters, they re-sell only clean, in good shape boats ready to hit the water. Of course they don't add gear, you get what the previous owner installed, but they will repair any problems before they sell the boat. In almost all the Mac resales they are acting as a broker but occasionally they will take a boat on trade and it is then theirs to resell.

BWY has a office in Portland Or., but I don't know if they would ever have any used inventory there, I would guess most of the time it is in Seattle.

As mentioned above, you won't find a more experienced dependable dealer. I don't know if Bill is willing to share, but I would guess they are number 1 or 2 on that list he has. They know these boats inside and out and have been selling them from when the first hull hit the water. Ray, one of their sales people and a personal friend of mine who I bought my used boat through, had the first 'X' prototype ever built.

I guess I would have to say that my experience was similar to PaulS' experience,as we both bought from the same dealer. Major diffeence was that my boat was in good condition on delivery. I did,however,get the "box o' parts" that we had to figure out.
"I guess that's the mainsheet,so this must be the boom vang!"
Otho tried as best he could,but the delivery became a long distance situation,as his guy up here left the business,and Otho was in FL. Our delivery was done by an experienced M owner who filled in,and he did a great job,but when we,and he,arrived at Havencraft,we found lots of missing stuff. For a week afterwards,I had Fedex delivering all kinds of goodies to my house.
"Oh look,today we got the mainsail!"
It had to cost him a fortune in shipping. As crazy as the delivery was,I still think Otho is a great guy. No pressure,talked me out of things I'm now happy to have passed on. Never really even "sold" me the boat.
I would still do business with him,but if you're new to sailing,and not very handy,it's gonna be a struggle.
What I would have liked?
A dealer to show me all the stuff,how everything works
All the stuff I ordered to be on the boat-installed-on a clean boat.
A dealer who can sell me parts(BWY is excellent!)
somebody I can call when I'm confused(about the boat!) Otho is good at this.
Strange as it seems,mainly I would like to go to the dealer and see a dealership-boats all over the place-people working on boats-maybe even a small showroom with "goodies" and info on mods.
But hey,I still think "Spice" is a great ride!

I believe I bought the last from Art Reiders at Havencraft, who retired and then passed away shortly thereafter...Fair tides, sir.

He patiently talked me through three visits, and a visit by the Admiral, and calmly talked me out of options that I didnt need, and into a few that were great.

"DOnt pay me to put in shore power, you home wire, right? Just do it next winter.."

Every call for my stupid mistakes rigging were returned right away, and thats how his business was.

Everything on the boat was right, except for things I took off and screwed up..

Five years later, Im heading off to Cuttyhunk, and proudly wear his name on the transom placard ....

Well what can I say ? well I bought my boat from Bill @ Boats 4 sail.
Bill went far and beyond what anyone has done for me in the past and I have been very happy with his service and help with ALL my questions . One was a simple one BTW . So Bill how do I do this ? Bill said do what ? I said SAIL He took me out and showed me how to do it.
I have soooooo many things /item on my boat that keep popping up in threads here and the MODS page but I hesitate to share some of them because they are not mine . . .they are Bill's and you get them when and if you buy from Bill.
One of his ideas is his custom Topping lift all lines lead aft too, lots of SS stuff and rope clutches. Lots of stuff. . . . that is replaced by Bill so it works easier better faster or so you NEVER lose . .overboard or anywhere else for that matter. There has never been a ring-ding on my boat and that is just a start. Bill encouraged me to buy this but not that and that and that if you all get my drift. There are BTW no less than 3 maybe more Dealers in my area and Bill was NOT the closest but in the end, I did get the very best deal $$ and the most help from Bill. I . . . .continue to get Bill's. . .Boats 4 Sail . . . .deals as well, and I can bend his ear all I want and I do when ever I feel I need some help.
Bill spent the day helping me rig my boat . No doubt in my mind he could have done it a lot!!!!!! faster without my help , but then I . . . . .would have learned 0 / Zero!
As others have said .
Yes by all means.
Look for the best deal from the best dealer,and he should care about you and your boat and he should be a sailor and he should sail these boats !
One last but important thought. . . .
IMHO his/your chosen dealers, parts department should NOT go by the Code Name BOB. . . . as in Bend Over Bucko. . . . . either !
IMHO Many BTW seem to

I have seen posts from people who took delivery of their Mac and everything was in boxes in the cabin. I would say having a dealer go the extra mile like Divecoz was talking about is the key. Who would buy a new car and get the radio and transmission in boxes in the trunk? I would say a dealer who oozes a passion for sailing is the dealer to use.

I also would like the dealer to stand behind the product, go out with me on the first sail, be available for assistance and instructions, and to assume responsibility for dealing with the factory in case of issues obviously their fault.

Realistically, however, I recognize that, after expenses such as shipping, utilities, taxes, rent, truck expenses, etc., the profit the dealer makes on each boat is not that much. Other than a few top dealers, most of them seem to be in the business because they like it, not as a means for making a fortune and retiring early. From my experience with two of them, they have lots of hassles, expenses, etc., and many seem to carry more than one line of boats. The boat is obviously built to a price, and that doesn't seem to register with some buyers, although that may be partially the fault of the dealers' representations, or lack thereof, when making the sale. Also, the business is apparently quite competetive, and most dealers seem to offer some form of discount on the boat, equipment, and/or installation.

So, I don't expect my dealer to continue to spend substantial amounts of time with me after the sale without charging a reasonable price for his time. (Although, in fact, both of those I have worked with - The first one actually left the business because of financial issues - have been more than helpful, and willing to spend time without charge answering questions, providing suggestions and advice, etc.)

As usual, I could be wrong. - But these are my observations.

Jim

Bill, do you have enough data to post an answer to the question???

A good dealer is simply a guy like Bill Beers. I bought a new MacGregor 26m form him Aug 3 2006. I drove all the way from Cleveland Ohio area in March 06 and he was very helpful, he never tried to sell me a thing that he thought I did not need When I asked about roller furler he said you dont need it. I f you want it later I will sell it to you but its not neccessary with the sailing you are planning on doing. A lot of dealers push push push to get the most out of a customer. Bill will only sell what you want not what he wants you to have to line his own pocket.When I went to buy my boat laterin August we spent 3 days in Wisconsin at Bills place I was supposed to help him rig the boat but truth to tell he did 95% of the work as I told him I knew absolutely zero about sailing. He is a very knowlegeable dealer and also a good sailor. He stands by the product and any help I have needed is only an e,mail or phone call away. In my opinion, after calling other dealers much closer to me I decide to drive 1000 miles round trip twice and bought from BOATS4SAIL. He has not paid me to say this. Thats what I thing a dealer should be like.

I've not bought a Mac yet. I'll tell you what I'm looking for in a dealer.

#1. Product Knowledge. They have to know and use the product. Both Bill & BWY impress me as knowing the product.

#2. Integrity I have to feel that they are not out just to get my money. Hey... I run a business. I know that is the goal but I don't want to feel like they are staring at my wallet when I walk in the door. Integrity is knowing that the profit is only part of reason for being in business. It is pride in what you do and how you conduct yourself.

#3. Value Not just price but that is certainly important. Let's face it. The Mac is for the workingman. The workingman usually has to watch his/her budget. I'm looking for the total package in a dealer though. Someone I can call & deal with after I've bought the product. I'm looking for someone who can guide me and walk me through my baby steps with the product. I'm looking for more than just a boat.

In my limited experience with Bill & BWY both seem like quality organizations to work with. And hey.... they both sponsor this site!

Also, a good Mac dealer is one who is making enough profit to maintain an ongoing business over time. - I personally don't want to deal with someone who offers the lowest prices and best service, but who spends so much time servicing his customers, resolving their problems for little or no additional charge, and having to scrimp on normal business expenses such that he is forced to go out of business next year. As mentioned in a previous note, I expect the dealer to to charge reasonable amounts for his time and, assuming that he is a reasonably competent businessman, to make a decent living from his business, e.g., to make enough to pay for normal business expenses in addition to his ordinary living expenses, medical expenses, childrens' education, retirement, etc.

The reason I bring up these issues is that, with the exception of the largest Mac dealerships, many seem to be marginal, semi-part-time affairs that either don't stay in business very long or are run as sidelines or hobbyists interests, etc. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this. - In my case, the dealer who sold me the boat was out of business within six months. - A surprise that left me with some problems regarding aspects of the installation work. ) - I know we are talking about a low-priced, mass-produced boat, and that we all want a good deal in addition to integrity, trust, and service after the sail, but IMO, cost-cutting and service demands can go to extremes, resulting in unintended consequences. There seem to be several large-volume dealers that deal with their customers with integrity, honesty, fairness, etc., but my experience is that there are also low-volume, marginal dealers that treat their customers with integrity, honesty, etc. Bottom line is that I expect my current dealer to be there when I need him, but I don't expect him to spend substantial additional hours advising me or working on my boat for free. YMMD.

Jim

Well, I bought mine from New Haven, Otho. Otho is a great guy, no doubt about that. I do have to agree with some of the posts, I didn’t get everything ready and completed and had to follow up on several items. But I have to say, after reading many of these stories I got a lot more than most. He rigged the boat, and we went out on the lake with it so he could show me most of the things.

Out biggest problem was time, he drove up form South Florida to where I live in Central Florida, was running behind, etc. So our time to review everything was pressed for time.

I had some gel-coat issues (color matching). There were several things missing but Otho has done a lot to get those done and even gave me another accessory for my trouble.

Turn-key, no, was I able to take the boat out the next day and sail it, yes. Was the major things done like the rigging including roller fuller, lines aft, motor, GPS, Ladder, water pressure system, stereo, stern rail seats (which are awesome)etc… YES!

The main reason I bought from Otho (and since there is no dealer in Orlando I got to choose from several) was because he could give me the options I wanted. The other dealers could not get everything, a big disappointment since Otho could. Otho also talked me out of several things I didn’t really need, which was a good thing. And educated me on why I didn’t need them, and why I might want other things.

If he could have got the GPS and AC I wanted I would have most likely bought from Super Sport Marine out of Nebraska, that is who I had worked with over the past year. But since I wanted all the things with the boat so it could be nicely financed all together I went with Otho. And two other reasons: price and the fact that Otho was in Florida.

Again, it has been frustrating many times and months of getting things resolve and I still have a couple of outstanding issues after 5 months (items that have to come from the factory).

Otho’s experience would be perfect if he had a supply of parts and a better check-list for items to be delivered.

I purchased my 05 M from Otho. I met him at the Annapolis boat show, and liked him right off. I did however question buying from someone so far away. I am in Pennsylvania, and his dealerships are in Mass. and Va. It turns out that the place he assembles his boats is an hour from my home, and he distributes from there. Any problems I have had have been a result of his chosen subcontractor for assembly, not Otho himself. He has gone above, and beyond what I have expected from him.

Is his system perfect; NO! Is he a man of his word; YES! Would I purchase from him again; YES!

I value the quality of a dealers word above all else. Problems happen. It's how you handle them that counts.

It is a shame that we are not hearing about more quality people who happen to be dealers. Bill and Otho have good reputations.


Ray

I purchased my 04 M from Otho. I first met him when he was living in Fredericksburg VA, and had his demo 26 X boats on the lower Potomac (M's had not yet come out).

I had first gone to A-1 in Annapolis, and was going to buy from them. I thought we had settled all the specifics i.e. price; options etc., but when I received the contract the dealer had added the standard aft swim ladder back into the deal. Both the Admiral, and myself had decided that it was not useable by use, and that I would add a bigger ladder by myself. The owner of A-1 flatly (and in a very nasty manner) refused our request, and said that is what we had to take. I told him what he could do with his ladder, and boat, and I am happy to report that I have never talked to anyone from A-1 again

Otho on the other hand not only was happy to work with me on the swim ladder, he had alternatives for me and swapped out the ladder while doing his prep work. Everything I had requested had been done in a satisfactory manner when I received the boat. I do agree with the other Captains who have purchased from Otho that his subcontractors could do a better job. I experienced the same box of STUFF below decks where I had to decide what exactly was what and a lack of explanation or instruction as to Mac idiosyncrasies, but other than that it was a very good experience.

As for Otho I have nothing but praise for him as dealer, He is always happy to go above and beyond when I call with Mac questions, advice, or any other problem. He worked with Bill at the factory for me, and got me replacement parts in record time, that were not up to my expatiations when I received the boat.

I would definitely buy another boat from him, but I would probably go to Florida to pick it up from him personally, partly because I have always wanted to do the ICW.