MacGregorSailors.com

Kevin - proposal along the lines of what you suggested has been made on Mods board and sent to Heath...I think its a good thing to look at...

Thanks, Stephen. Yeah, sumpthin' tells me I think we've been had... yet again... sigh... after all, has anybody seen Flo post a reply with more questions, or to even say thanks? Not me.

I guess it's OK to bring this up again since new things are learned and old posts become obsolete. I think the M probably sails a little better than the X just from my experience sailing around with X's with our M. There don't seem to be many M's or X's racing so it's hard to say. We beat an X in a race Friday but that's the only time I've been in a real race with one. Personally the wife and I like the M layout better but I like some things about the X. I think it's easier to get on and off from the transom because it's wider.

By the way; I agree with Richard that a 150% genoa is too big and you're better off with a jib. We're getting ready to go to LOWISA for the anual races and will probably use the jib. Still not sure about the spinnaker.

With due respect to skeptics, I don't see Flo's post as baiting, and here's why.

Unless you're a Mac owner you probably wouldn't have a clue that the X vs M debate was so polarizing. A troll might expect fireworks by tossing a Ford bomb into a Chevy forum, but how many would expect sparks among Biscayne vs Impala owners? This Mac debate is highly parochial, a bit silly, and fortunately seems to have settled.

As for poor Flo, I think her question seemed quite innocent, which is why I tried to list some reading options. As for her feedback ... maybe she decided that "this stove" is just a bit "too hot" to approach again!?

As for comparing the two boats, X vs M, the cabins and cockpits speak for themselves. A prospective owner can easily observe the differences and make his own choice. But Flo asked about sailing differences. That's a difficult question to answer objectively. Few persons have sailed both boats and fewer still have alternated between the boats to draw an extended opinion. Those who HAVE owned both boats might not have sailed them across wide-ranging conditions.

I had chance the last Friday to sail with Leon on his 26M-HD (heavy dagger ). We had classic SF-afternoon conditions with winds building from 15 knots to 20+. In spite of Leon's obviously blown-out sails, I must say that the M seems more responsive to the helm, and easier to control in heavy winds than my 26X. Yes it wants to round up, but it's generally controllable with a combination of rudder and sails ... in the same conditions my X rounds forcefully, and it's unstoppable - it seems easier to balance the M-helm.

We saw upwind GPS speeds consistently over 7 knots and touched 8 knots repeatedly. Downwind speeds were similar until we lost wind behind Treasure Is. Leon did a great job of holding a constant heading in a very challenging downwind run, following swell ... no uncontrolled jibes at all. My feeling is that Leon's 26M does sail somewhat better than my 26X, it's probably a bit faster and easier to control in heavy winds. Once he has those new rudders (and swaps real sails to replace those bedsheets ) Leon's 26M will be a dream to sail!

(Until you try to control a Mac in 20 knots and 2-ft chop, you probably can't judge whether it needs more rudder .... IMO, it should help immensely).

Ive watched the M factory DVD, as well as the Video of the X. There appears to be no difference in sailing ability between the two boats.
Heh Heh....no arguements..Okay

I guess I have been "baited" to respond to my question about performance differences between the X and the M. I want to especially thank Frank C and Scott for responding with due diligence and patience to undoubtedly a subject they have responded to many times before. Being mentors to those who are nascent in their understanding of sailing and craft alike and who ask many of the same questions other students have asked is not easy. I came to this forum with no ulterior motive other then to learn and acquire knowledge. I apologize if I upset those who are regulars on this site and feel that I am acting as a catalyst of needless argument. I can understand their ire but I am sure they were once beginning sailors with inquiring minds. I would rather be a knowledgable and safe sailor than an ignorant dangerous one. Thanks again for all the responses to my questions.....flo

flo- it looks like you have approched the M and X like I did. I did buy an M and like it very well. I have been on the boat 48 days this year and have made over 1800 miles over water with my M. Most of my time has been spend at anchor. Sailing a little faster has not been a concern of mine.

There is 2 major things that I like about the boat.

1. It does just about everything that I want in a boat.

2. It is cheep enough that I could pay for it and not have to worry about any others monies that I would spend vrs another boat of the same size.


Don't worry about hurt feeling from this board. We get over it the next time we take our boats out. (i do anyway)

FLO...absolutely do not allow your feelings to be hurt. 1. Ive been accused of hijacking threads (this is jumping the subject), 2. Using too many capital letters and punctuation marks, 3. oh well...never mind.
Ive learned that sailors are a "crusty" bunch...just a buncha fun loving guys and gals that are sometimes, often times, quite outspoken. But, this is a fine forum...and Ive noticed a "quibbling of nonsense" now and then, but it's great fun.
I've learned a lot about my Mac from many of the quibblers...and I still hang around listenin' in, and learning.
I wanna thank this forum for some great help for me in the sailing performance of my Mac - X.

Also, you will find that being a Mac owner puts you in a class of its own because, those other "name brand" boat owners like to be somewhat critical of the MacGregor Power Sailor. But thats a whole matter in and of itself...

Happy Sailing....

I apologize if I upset those who are regulars on this site and feel that I am acting as a catalyst of needless argument.

Agreed with louis.I just was tippy toeing around a subject I think we have all learned our lesson on. Please hang, out ask questions and if we can we'll impart somehard earned sage wisdom. Not me but someone will.

I reiterate the X andM are both great boats!! Great starter boats and quite spacious considering the size. Easy to sail and inexpensive.

If you want a new boat you will be forced to opt for the M. If you want a used boat or are cost conscious (even a new M is not prohibative) you will find more X's on the market than M's.

You could luck out as did my wife and I in finding an immaculate lightly used X for an absolute steal.

Many owners are fanatical about maintainence so the chances are good that you can find a good used X.

Owning an X I feel as though I can critisize it without treading on anyones sacred cow. If I had my druthers I would like to have 2 things from the M.

1. I would like the raised entry to the aft berth. (More headroom going aft)

2. I would love to have a sliding galley. I have heard mixed reviews on this but it would be so cool to be able to gain that room while underway or at anchor and playing / swimming.

Im not sure which years offered this but I like it.

Scott wrote:Im not sure which years offered this but I like it.

2005 and beyond, so far anyway... The 2003/2004 Ms had the "D" style galley tucked between the dagger board and starboard hull.

Heck, even in this difference there are advantages and disadvantages. The older fixed galley was simple and made the salon down right caverous...

I basically fix the galley in the full forward position all the time. I even removed all the associated seat cusions... I only slide it back to get at the storage under it...

Welcome aboard!

They both are great boats for what they are designed to do. If you are looking for a bargan, a used boat is usually the better choice. If new is your goal, well new is the M.

As for sailing characteristics, both boats are unique. As an M sailor, I chose it mostly because of new - most boats are not in the shape I was after and have already been modified. Partly was because of the hull design, cockpit, and rotating mast.

Faster, better? Depends who you talk to. A good sailor can make any boat move well.

This is mostly like the question, Camaro or Mustang? Depends.

This is probably the most discussed point M : X on this forum - good stuff too! You wouldn't even need to search, just roll down the pages.

Anyway, as an owner, I am very pleased and have no regrets on my decision for the M. Bellaroo is a beautiful boat and we sail her quite often, though not often enough! Every day is a great sailing day.

Michael

Look at a 26X and a 26M. They're both great boats. Decide which one is best for you and go sailing.

My first rule of boat shopping: EVERY boat is a compromise.
Second rule: Everyone has an opinion but when disussing your own boat, your own opinion counts for at least 51% of the vote

As to sailing performance, in my opinion the two boats are so close that you should not base the choice between them on sailing performance. If you are a veteran sailor with many years experience and you want a fine tuned racing machine, then you can probably judge this for yourself - but you are also probably not looking for a MacGregor. First and foremost, the Mac's are fun and relaxing - Mac sailors tend to identify more with the laid-back cruiser crowd than the hardcore racing crowd.

This does not mean that we do not constantly seek out ways to improve our boats - but then most of us would do the same thing if our pride and joy were a dugout canoe. (Is an oak or cedar log faster?)

Just go with what makes you comfortable and what you expect to want the boat for. Some examples I used when comparing the two (I bought a 26M in 2004 after about 3 years of serious thought):

- The hatch from the cockpit to the cabin (the companionway) on an X is much easier to go in and out of than on a 26M - this might be a concern if you have elderly sailors or small children.
- Conversely, because of the less-friendly companionway on the 26M, most will admit that there is more headroom/easier access to the rear bunk from down below.
- The interior of the 26M is tan/sand colored with carpeted sidewalls, whereas the 26X is mostly black and white. In my opinion: the 26M is more aesthetically pleasing but the 26X is brighter and probably a lot easier to clean (damp rag vs. vacuum cleaner).
- The 26X has a more open transom area which most will find easier to get in and out of the water, but the 26X steering linkage is exposed in the transom where it is easier to trip over or step on than on a 26M.
- The 26M is available with a blue hull which looks very nice but is harder to keep shiny - the blue also absorbs more sun energy than white which is a good thing in cold climes but bad in hot...
- The 26X V-Berth is a bit longer and accommodates a taller person.
- The 26X head compartment is aft of the dinette and has a separate little sink and more headroom. The 26M head is forward and smaller with no separate sink. I think this makes my 26M cabin much larger, and I don't miss an extra sink with extra hoses and hardware to fix someday. But then, I don't have a wife so the head is very rarely used at all...
- etc., etc.

The point is, whichever one you have, when you visit one of the others you'll notice things you wish you had - and you'll notice things you are glad you don't have.

When I go on an X, I wish I had the nice big companionway. When I go on a newer M, I wish my dinette table sat up high so I could see out the windows while eating at it (I have the 2004 M with the centerline removable table arrangement). When I get back to my own M, I love my huge, cavernous, open cabin and the fact that my table is put away leaving me all that open space.

When a nice new bigger boat cruises by, I wish I had a long-distance cruiser to circumnavigate the globe - but when I look out and see my Mac safely in my own driveway while hurricanes pound the gulf coast ... well, you get the picture.

Choose the boat you like and that works for you and your crew! And don't let some "real sailor" tell you a Mac is crap - I am a "real sailor" from way back, and my Mac fits me like a glove.

- Andy26M

Flo, we owned a 2001 X for 3 years then purchased a 2005 M last spring. I have found that the M does not have as much of a snap roll as the X. This is because the M has a more rounded hull and will start to heel sooner than the X and thus more gently. This rounded bottom SEEMS to make it feel more sturdy in larger seas. You will find that once the ballast is in the M the bow sites about 6" lower that the stern. When we had our X we added a bow water tank to hold the bow lower and thus make the boat faster. I do sail in Gulf & San Juan Islands area and find it is an excellent coastal boat. In the March 2005 issue of Pacific Yachting there is an very good article on the MacGregor which calls it an "excellent coastal cruiser".

Each year our local MacGregor club holds fun races. For the last 2 years we have come in 1st with our M. Last year this was even against a lightly loaded X with 2 people on board and NO BALLAST compared to our 4 person crew and all our camping stuff. The secret to this was, and I want to keep this quiet incase any of next years competators are around , is the crew I picked were very experienced and competative racers . I feel that the M is a slightly faster boat probably because of hull shape and no slot for the swing keel. This could also be attributed to the blue hull.

There is several things we like about the interior of the M and a few thing we miss from the X; this will be for you to decide. But the low sleeping area in the stern of the X was our one issue.

The X has much more metal around the larger cockpit. I had to add stern rail seat, which we love, to help with this and even have a place to hang my dingy motor. The X has a roomier cockpit. Don't get me wrong we love our new M and have only one regret; that we got the blue hull. We plan on living on her for a year in about 3 years.

Good luck with your boat purchase. Blue Water Yachts are great people and certainly will give you good information and service.

Happy Sailing