Realistically Speaking

[Catigale]

To get a little (?) bit more analytical on this topic....your gas mileage will drop by roughly 50% towing the Mac with a small engine tow vehicle
(mid 20 mpg to low teens mph Im guessing)

Your engine is working roughly twice as hard
Monthly round trip drag across the country is about 70k miles per year,36k for one way trip per month
Roughly Equivalent to 140k miles wear on engine and transmission 'without boat'
I conclude you would consume about a car every year or two depending on usage.

My feeling is this sort of usage calls for a better tow vehicle with particular attention on the engine selected. I think I would go diesel for this.

Just add the new car option to your Mac list, Blue

[Harvey]

I tow my 2000X with a 2000 Honda Odyssey, and have made several trips over 150 miles, including a 500 miler over mountains between Sacramento and Salem, OR. I found the Ody to be an adequate, though not ideal, tractor. If kmclemore is crazy for using a minivan, then there are many of us successfully towing that way. However, if you plan on making frequent cross-country trips with your Mac in tow, you will probably be better off with a more heavy and powerful tow vehicle.

There are several things that the Honda Odyssey manual recommends before towing a load a heavy as a Mac. Below are comments I prepared for a similar question on another forum:

The receiver and weight distributing (includes anti-sway bars) hitch setup I used is based on the guidelines presented in the towing pages of the 2000 Honda Odyssey minivan manual. It does seem extreme and is way more expensive than a simple receiver and hitch. In the manual is a chart listing recommended towing loads with and without transmission coolers and weight-distributing hitches. There are also Odyssey forums that contain many comments about the weaknesses of Odyssey transmissions and the need to follow the Honda recommendations in order to avoid transmission breakdown and the considerable expense required for repair or rebuild.

Trucks usually don’t need a weight-distributing hitch to tow an X, and the X trailer surge brakes work well with that simpler arrangement (lucky fellas). However, the Honda Odyssey needs a different setup.

A wiring harness is a very convenient way to connect to the brake and tail light wiring connector located behind the jack recess.

While I chafed at the extra expense of preparing my Odyssey this way, I enjoy the peace of mind that comes from knowing I have prepared my tractor to tow my X with TLC.

Go to the Mac forum below and do a search for towing.

The other forum will provide a lot of helpful information about the Honda Odyssey minivan.

http://www.macgregor26x.com/


http://www.odyclub.com/forums/


The Honda Odyssey can tow an X fairly well. Odyssey towing capacity is 3500 lbs. with a class 3 (6000 lb) receiver and weight-distributing hitch. A lightly loaded X and trailer weighs in at about that weight.

You will need a hitch that works with surge brakes. The only one I found after extensive searching was EQual-I-Zer. Watch out for other hitches without the dashes, they are not the same.

Here is what I needed to convert my 2000 Odyssey into a Mac X tractor and where I bought them:

From Etrailer.com

Hidden Hitch class III hitch: 70737 47 lb $129.95
S&H 33.19 163.14

Wiring Harness: 18336 2 lb $25.20
1.11 26.31

From rvwholesalers.com:

E-Qual-izer Weight Distributing Hitch $399.00

You will also need a crossbar that fastens to the single pole Mac trailer so the weight-distributing bars have connection points. I can’t find the web site, but it cost me about $100.

Install the largest transmission cooler you can. An automatic transmission requires it, and Honda transmission replacements are expensive. You can save some money by installing it yourself, but it is a PITA unless you are an experienced mechanic. I bought one at a local auto parts store for about $60 and installed it myself and wish I had paid a mechanic.

I have towed my X over 1000 miles with the above setup with no problems and no trailer sway, but a full-size pickup would be better. The advice by previous posters about brakes and bearings is excellent.

[Tom Root]

You will also need a crossbar that fastens to the single pole Mac trailer so the weight-distributing bars have connection points. I cant find the web site, but it cost me about $100.
.

Could you please provide me with a resource for this bar please?

If not, a pic or manufacturer, measurement, mounting technique.....anything?

The reason I ask, is... if I do decide to use my load leveler/anti-sway, hitch on another vehicle, I'd have a way to do so. I have been advised by every facility that installs hitches in my locale, that it's not usable because of the surge brakes, which in my opinion is the worst engineered system I have ever seen! I'd almost rather have no brakes installed! They have given me so much grief, I am considering removing them! With salt water, electric brakes are not an easy option, but I sure would prefer Hyd/Elect. combo, if possible!

All good points are given in this thread for a decent towing setup, I think it's all doable if equipped and outfitted properly, along with a dose of common sense driving, and careful attention to conditions.

I have heard of a condition known as "White Knuckles" developing from this arraingement in towing, and the ONLY cure known is a more suitable towing rig.

I see 22MPG in these smaller SUV's and am glad I have 7,200 lbs and 310 (500+ possible w/Juice) ponies and 620 lbs of torgue (1000+ w/juice).

Really besides easier parking, I'd take my Chevy 2500HD, Diesel 4X4 extended cab 8' bed.....anyday. I have 20K miles and overall average milage now stands at 20 MPG, and I see 22 MPG hwy, 16 city,(worst case) and about 15 towing (worst!). Maybe NOT for everybody, but please remember that mass equates to safety when towing.....hands down!

Is it possible to tow with puny vehicles, yes of course, but I look at it as a mere matter of survival to the many varying conditions on the road, and especially if one is to tow long distance/ hilly terrain, rainy, possible snow/ice or any other demanding situation, reconsider your tow vehicle...truly!

Roger provided a really safe boat, and I really feel we are more at risk of peril on the road than when on the water with our Mac's!

The ONLY reason I even weighed in on this, is because I have seen enough towing accidents to at least feel that I have better odds in that unfortunate event. Is there data supporting my claims....doubt it, but it's what's more of a gut feeling for me anyway!

Of course, for mast up/easy tow to a decent ramp you can get away with even less.

Not knocking vehicle choice, but I personally wouldn't tow more than 8' Utility trailor with anything offered by any Jap Manufacturer.....but that is just my opinion, which as I see is not shared probably by most if any out there, but I stated it none-the-less!

[kmclemore]

You will also need a crossbar that fastens to the single pole Mac trailer so the weight-distributing bars have connection points. I cant find the web site, but it cost me about $100.
.

Could you please provide me with a resource for this bar please?

Tom, I think what he's mentioned is called a "Pole Tongue Adapter"... for trailers that don't have an A-frame close enough to the car to attach the weight distribution bars.

Not knocking vehicle choice, but I personally wouldn't tow more than 8' Utility trailor with anything offered by any Jap Manufacturer.....

I have a Dodge Caravan Sport and a Toyota Sienna, so I'm well experienced with both US and "Jap" vans.. gimee the Toyota anytime - faster, stronger, handles better, gets better mileage... and I'm not fixing it all the bloody time... just had to replace the wiper motor in the Caravan the other day 'cause it stripped its main gear (*never* had that happen in any other car - and trust me, I've had LOTS).... it goes through sway-bar link bushings annually... every once in a while the gauges quit and somehow come back on later (complete mystery there, but a common problem with Chrysler vans)... and now I'm having problems with the battery going dead (yet all the electrics check out OK - alternator, battery and possible drains)..... not to mention that I'm always on pins-and-needles wondering when the tranny is going to cough up and die (also a common problem with Chrylser minivans).... grrrrrrrrr.

When the US designs one that performs and lasts like the "Jap" ones, I'll buy it. Trust me, I'm all for "Buy American" and I try to do so as much as I can, but on the other hand I won't pay the price for somebody else's inability to design a quality product... if I just bought their crap it would do a disservice to both me and to the US manufacturer, as they'd never make a competitive product unless they felt the heat.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

I tow my MacX with a Ford F150, stick shift, v-6, with no problem. Incidently, I've owned Fords most of my life, and the service has been good, including all three owned presently. Im so hung up on buying AMERICAN I'll continue buying FORD unless I find a GM model that we like better. But as for me, no Jap stuff (and yep...I know where some assembly plants are, some American vehicles have foreign parts, etc). Thats what I like about a MacGregor...made in the good ole USA.
Oh wait, we have a Mexican Chiahuahua...but dont hold that against us

[Catigale]

back to Blue's post - if I were dragging a Mac across the country every month, another consideration for the vehicle is service access - if you break down in backwoods Timbuktu I think a domestic vehicle will be more easily serviced by any Tom, Harry, Dick, or Jayne (that last one for California)

[kmclemore]

I tow my MacX with a Ford F150, stick shift, v-6, with no problem.....

....I know where some assembly plants are, some American vehicles have foreign parts, etc). Thats what I like about a MacGregor...made in the good ole USA....

The Ford F150 is made in Dearborn, MI. The F150's engine is made in Windsor, Ontario, Canada.

The Sienna is made in Princeton, Indiana. The Sienna's engine is made in Buffalo, West Virgina. They also export the engines from there to Japan, since they don't make any Sienna V6's in Japan.

Toyota has several other US plants, but in particular has a large one in Long Beach, California which produces sheet metal parts, steering columns, catalytic converters, etc. They use those parts in their American manufactured cars and they also export them to Japan.

Don't want to get into a long debate here, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone, but I do think it is valuable to understand the truth of how much alleged "Jap" stuff doesn't really come from Japan at all.

[kevperro]

There is no better value than a good used full sized truck or van. In our area the used truck market is huge and you can pick up a servicable full sized unit for 5K-6K. Yes... it will be high milage (100K-125K) no it won't have all the whizmos and gizmos and yes it will require service but it will tow your Mac with a big safety margin once it is brought up to snuff. Plan on spending a couple thousand per year to keep it running in tip-top shape and keep on top of maintence, especially brakes and major systems (you should with any vehicle).

I bought my 1/2 ton 4x4 1997 (170,000 miles) Chevy truck for $2000. I had to immediately spend another $1800 in repairs to get everything 100%. I pay $175/yr in insurance (just liability) and it gets about 16-18mpg. I wouldn't hesitate to drive it across country. I just towed a trailer to Vegas & back roundtrip 3000 miles.


Modern vehicles have the potential to go a lot of miles, more than most people give them credit for. I've seen 1/2 ton Chevy trucks with 500,000 miles and still going. Most people buy new for security but even a new vehicle can leave you stranded. Tow trucks are pretty common in the USA so I wouldn't stress about it.

[Tom Root]

Kevin, thank you very much for the pic sir, I think I can make that easy enough and can probably scrounge enough material around here to do so!

Uhh, guess I struck a nerve with offending some with the mention of Jap products.

Nope, I can't deny that I have had good luck with both American and Jap products!

I doubt I'd ever get rid of my Suzuki Samurai 4X4, and only going to stuff a German VW 1.9 TDI Diesel in it to give it more "Guts" and well... I like free fuel too!

http://greasel.com/ <--- Hey, I do it my way....OK?

My ONLY point, as I reinterate is the safety factor of more metal in the tow vehicle...who can argue with that?

Hey, tow with less, expect the same result is all I say!

[Terry]

Harvey wrote:

The Honda Odyssey can tow an X fairly well. Odyssey towing capacity is 3500 lbs. with a class 3 (6000 lb) receiver and weight-distributing hitch. A lightly loaded X and trailer weighs in at about that weight.

The 3500 lbs towing capacity indicates Class 2 towing, class 3 is 3500 - 5000 lbs and even with a class 3 hitch the weakest link is still the class 2 tow vehicle. Having to add a weight distributing setup only complicates matters, on my Trailblazer the manual recommends a weight distributing hitch after 4000 lbs, fortunately that is the most I am ever likely to have with the Mac so I don't need it. Most folks, whether they realize it or not, are really pulling close to 4000lbs when you consider all the extra stuff on the boat. A class 3 set-up is really the minimum requirement and also one has to consider what the legal requirements are in case of an accident, will the insurance company cover you if you are not within legal towing restrictions?

[Harvey]

Terry, your comment brings up an interesting issue about legal requirements or limitations on trailer weights, as well as weight classes of tow rigs.

I have checked with the Oregon DMV web site and called the DMV Hq and raised the question of weight/vehicle limitations and towing weight classes. I found no restrictions or classifications such as Class 1, 2 or 3 in the vehicle code. The only weight guidance was for trailers weighing more than 8000 lbs. According to the person at OR DMV, it would be legal to tow a 7000 lb. trailer with a Honda Civic. Not wise, but not illegal.

Generally, US state vehicle codes are very similar. Canadian motor vehicle codes may differ.

It appears that trailer weight classes are industry standards rather than legal guidance. However, someone with more encyclopedic knowledge of motor vehicle codes may be able to provide additiona information.

My insurance agent is aware of my tractor/trailer situation and raised no issues. Her family are power boaters.

The reason for my use of a Class III hitch was that the boat/trailer weight is at and above minimum class III weight, and that the weight distribution hitch is made for class III receivers with a 2 inch opening. The Equal-I-Zer hitchis the only one I found that works with surge brakes, and I find it activates the trailer brakes appropriately.

Tom Root, the picture at the source provided by Kmclemore is the crossbar I mentioned, but he found a cheaper source.

Blue, I get approx. 14 mpg towing the boat at 65 mph, 22 without the boat, on the highway.

Yeah!!! Early wx predictions are for a few rainless days next week, which may allow me to tow the boat out of the back yard without digging deep ruts. If so, I hope next week to be on the water for the first time this year. Lots to learn, lots of fun to be had!

Harvey ('02 X, Over There)

[Catigale]

Im still reeling from that post of the guys towing two things in tandem, and the fact that it was legal to do so....in many states...

We should probably bump this one to Trailers and Towing eventually??

[Terry]

Harvey,
You are likely correct on legalities, I only brought it up because the same issue has been raised regarding overpowering the MacGregor beyond the manufacturers 50hp rating. Would insurance companies cover you for it?
The Class 1,2,3,4,5 is an industry standard publicized by trailor companies such as Champion & Titan etc. I have seen in towing pamphlets reference to vehicles falling into the same categorization and they do rate the vehicles by the manual specs for towing, eg. 2000 -3500 lbs is a class 2 tow vehicle, 3500-5000lbs is class 3 etc. Weather it is legal or not I don't really know, but I do know not to assume anything when it comes to insurance, make sure it is in writing or risk the insurance company contesting it. I have seen a number of publicized materials outlining safe towing set-ups using the industry standards, anyone contemplating towing should follow these guidelines and as much as they may be only guidelines they may very well be in the insurance contract fine print, but nobody has pointed it out to you for fear they may not get your money. Sometimes it is worded in the contract to the effect of "within safe towing limits" or something of that order. I do not think these publications are put out to get sales but moreso to promote safe driving and trailoring, just something to think about.

[Divecoz]

Like I said I have a picture of my brother towing a 26 Ft. Wellcraft C.C. with a 10 ft tuna tower and a 200 hp Johnson behind his Ford Ranger 4x4. He did it , he lived the truck still runs would I suggest it. . . no.
I can also remember he and I both being in a big hurry to get from Chicago to Northern Wisc. One Friday night both towing Starcraft Americans (17ft Glass runabouts with 100hp V4 Johnson's ) his behind a Corvette Mine behind a 454 Monte Carlo would I do that trip again at those speeds with NO brakes on the trailers? No but we did it once . . So hook your little unibody Mini (hum think about that word for a minute ) Van up to a Mac 26 X or M and then stand back and tell me . . . does it look like a good match to you??
Another way to look at it . . Your going over a bridge that says When It Was New It would Support 3500#'s Your car weighs about 3400#s would you risk it . . . and how many times would you take that route ??
One last STUPID Tow story. 1977 I made a U-haul out of an old boat trailer . I was in a big hurry to get from Chicago to Eugene Or. . . .I didn't think to move the axel forward till it was really too late . It was loaded and sitting on the back of my CJ 5 and the springs wouldn't handle it, so we just jacked it up in the air and used 4 inch pipe traps and 4x4's between the frame and the axel Heck its only 2200 miles . That 304 V8 with the 650 Holley and the hookers had more than enough power but the drum brakes sucked . . . .numerous times on that trip (northern rt.) I made it, I am alive, do I suggest Blue try it ??? NO! I think I am being a bit adamant because I for one would really hate to read on this board how you totaled your vehicle and your boat and almost got killed etc etc . You Said Frequent Long Trip from where your at where could you go and not have to go thru mountains ? Evil Kenevil lived thru they say 40 + bad crashes but look at him hahaha. He is btw imho just the type of guy who would try hauling a 4000 lb boat that towers behind a 3000 lb mini van all the way across America. But hey if ya live . . . think of the stories you'll have to tell.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I've been towing with a Honda Odyssey for almost 3 yrs now. Although it is class2, it is no puny vehicle. With 118 inch wheelbase and weighing 4400#, I'll bet it is bigger than most all the midsize and smaller SUV's that many folks tow with. I think it tows fine although you are not supposed to have more than 2 adults in the van and I would be afraid of wearing the vehicle out with such frequent towing. It is an excellent vehicle though and has had perfect reliability. I put the large transmission oil cooler on it but I don't use the weight distributing hitch, just a regular class2 hitch.

I recently bought a fullsize SUV due to my expanding family and have started towing with that. I need new tires and have only been doing short distances to the ramp so far. The V8 SUV pulls the Mac up the ramp with barely a touch to the gas pedal but the V6 FWD Odyssey never had any trouble pulling the Mac out either, you just have to step on it a bit more. I think in general that FWD is fine on a boat ramp since you get less slippery up higher. I've been to many ramps and never had a problem with slippage although I've seen RWD pickups spinning tires. The rear suspension of the Odyssey does not compress much with all the tongue weight on it, again, I do not put any cargo in while towing. With adequate tongue weight, I have no problem going up to 65-70 mph.

Now the trailer, it is giving me trouble. I've already had to fix half the bunks and now today, one of the goal posts broke off due to the strong crosswind.