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edurbin wrote:Arhh, I see Zavala (as much as I can with not having pulled mine apart). The rack must go down some way into the pedestal tube. Suppose the pedestal only is rotated, could the rack attachment be modified to reattach in some way. Then, suppose I had to make a new box for the steering wheel and outboard connections. Might that work ? I guess that steering wheel is not straight up and down, but is the steering wheel shaft perpendicular to the rack ?

That's exactly right Craig. It's a very tight squeeze. I assembled mine from raw parts and it was QUITE a chore. I don't think the rack itself could be modified, but you could probably switch to a rotaty helm steering systemand make it fit, but I'm not sure you'd want to. From what I understand the early X's had these helms and they are not nearly as strong -- consequenlty more prone to failure.

Now, not wanting to be pessemistic, here's a thought... What about removing one of the fuel locker covers and "sliding" the current pedestal to starboard or port? You'd free up floorspace, but give up the locker and some seating?

Thanks Zavala. I'm not so keen to move the whole lot to Port or Starboard, that would put some serious holes in my new boat.

One final thing about pedestal rotation. The steering wheel angle must be perpendicular to the rack. So, the wheel is more or less parallel with the pedestal (as supplied). Now, if we rotate the pedestal 90 degrees, and we rotate the rack inside the pedestal by 90 degrees, the new steering wheel angle becomes straight up and down. On reading the technical info about the Detmar rack and pinion, the more usual installation in power boats would be to mount the rack horizontally. However, in the horizontal rack position, there is still flexibility to angle the steering wheel shaft at 20 degrees. So, while the steering shaft remains perpendicular to the rack, it can still rotate around the rack axis.

So, accepting that the new steering wheel position will become straight up and down, and some modification to the enclosure box required, do you think the current steering system could be made to fit and function correctly ?

Craig

Frank C

First: Thanks for those software links.

Frank C Zavala edurbin

Originally I had considered mounting the 6 traveler beam to a pair of modified genoa track cars, with a bracket support to secure the center with traveler car clearance from the helm case, installing helm case internal backing and SS tee nuts with bolts to secure the center of the traveler Hi-Beam track to span the cockpit unsupported to the forward side of the helm with clearance for the car and main sheet block to pass.

This arrangement was would kill my helm seat in the cockpit, and was abandoned.

I like your traveler idea, and wonder if a pair of those WM ladder mounts could not be modified for the ends of the traveler track(one of them) and mounted sideways, facing forward at the base at each side of the cockpit seat backs. On the M I would consider mounting the track forward, considering I need to move and sit abeam and just forward the helm. The lashing idea keeps it simple, and the recessed ski tow cleats sounds great. I agree on the cost factor of those winchard folding eyes, the large titanium run $400 and even the SS are close to $80 each.

Knowing I will likely fail to blueprint a functional Tiller system to replace the helm support and wheel, I am interested in seeing if edurbin has any success in what I believe is rotating the helm case and, or pedestal 180 degrees, placing the wheel on the forward, or cabin side. Ill have to look at this closer as it might just move my helm seat closer to the sheet winches and very near the traveler and mainsheet. It also would move my weight forward. This might force the crew to move, but would make single-handing easier.

Im sure many are aware of the size and difference in the early M helm Pedestal and Todays. If you look close (probably have to use your email browser to enlarge the photos, but there is a marked difference in pedestal size and cockpit base mount.
EARLY PEDESTAL

PRESENT PEDESTAL

They and Theirs,
I was thinking a 90 degree rotation, not 180. I reckon 180 will take things too far forward - already is cramped forward of the pedestal for our use. Based on your pics, I guess my pedestal looks like present case.
My main purpose is to get better access along one side only, hence just the 90 degree rotation. Looking at it again, maybe even a 45 degree rotation would be enough (not sure about wheel angle) - but that would mean drilling another set of holes in the pedestal base (which is still not a major problem).

Anyway, this would be a winter time project for me at least - it costs just time to undo things and see what can really be done - if anything. I've got another 6 months of good weather right now, so I don't plan to dismantle things right now. I'll let that idea develop a little and see how we feel in the winter time.

Craig

Here's your MacGregor "tiller."
Stick steering mounted on top of the steering pedestal...

Very interesting Moe. It might even be a handy choice for interior cabin helm ... do you have any experience or user references?

Wondering about price, not shown on the link pages?
Also wondering about the lock-to-lock throw distance, both ends?

Moe

Now thats something new here. Great find, or where have you been hiding this interesting piece? I looked and could not see any lock-to-lock information. It might just prove a practical addition in making the cockpit work better.

Thanks Moe

PS Was there something in that Bibel Verse?

Stick steering is used on small fishing boats. I haven't used one and don't know what the total throw is, but have seen them on the local lakes. Sorta looks like the owners are driving an airboat. That just happened to be the first one I came across on Google search.

Hey thats an interesting approach. Driving might take some getting used to if mounted on the pedestal - forward and back or up and down for left and right.

Suppose it was mounted at floor level (or below), then you're left with a gear stick for steerage. Interesting. The steering pedestal could then be taken right out. Leaves the problem of where to then put the outboard control box. What about a twist grip for engine throttle control. Lets make it an aircraft cockpit !

A nice lateral tangent anyway. See where it goes.

Craig

There's several owners that have installed the EZ-Stik on their boats. Here's a shot from one of the guys on the Yahoo M19 Group...



Reports on it there have all been favorable....

When I installed my auto pilot I used a larger key then normal to put the wheel back on. What this did was make it real easy to unscrew the nut that holds the wheel on and just pull the wheel off. It does not go as far on the taper shaft so it wont stick as the og. the auto pilot came with a
type of socket wrench that is small enough to fit in my small tool box and its used to take the nut off the wheel. I did this because I installed a larger wheel at the time and it really gets in the way when boarding.

Taking the wheel off does free up alot of room to pass by the ped.

Not sure how the boat would handle with a ez stick at speed but taking the wheel off would free up as much room and its not a big pain to make it easy to do. If your talking about the ez stick replaceing the whole ped. then what would you do with all the wires that come up through it?

Go with a twenty to twenty two inch wheel and make it removable. we are just stuck with the ped.

Aya16

The boat we raced offshore used a simple key ignition next to the throttle, dash not more than the helm face on the Mac forward of the wheel, and the throttle was a socket for the Winch handles aft the wheel. I have been meaning to ask everyone if his or her alarm buzzer is inside the helm where I found mine, seems loud when you pull it out of that box. I think it should to be installed where it will be heard.

Zavala edurbin

Thats interesting the Mac 19s have been holding back on possible new upgrades?


Im not sure, but I believe my bad knee is feeling better the more this Idea progresses. I know my movement in the cockpit will be much improved, and it appears the Mac 19s have done a pre-flight. You would think a 50 on the Mac 19 most certainly would be faster than the 26?

The stick steering looks interesting. I was thinking you might set up two sticks. One to do the motor steering, and the other for the rudders while under sail. I guess if you wanted to pull on both sticks you could do motor and rudder steering together. Alternatively, suppose you set up a joy stick like in an aircraft. Forward and back does the motor steering, while left and right does the rudders. Just kicking the ball around here.

Another approach to getting around the pedestal - cut down the width on one of those cockpit seats. That will be a cost effective short term solution. It leaves a little step where the cockpit locker is, but, there is an easy 5 inches or so could be taken out of the seat. Then don't need to do the sideways shimmy to get past the pedestal. I've got a bit of scrap plywood in the shed, so might have a little play.

Taking the wheel off is good idea at anchor. But its really when you're in a hurry to go forward for anchoring, or sail duties etc. that the extra bit of room would help.

Craig

I wonder if there's a significant difference in cockpit width between X and M? ... as for my 26X, I simply cannot imagine going to the extent of design or implementation of these alternatives?~!


Besides the modification efforts involved, considering that the Mac's rudder or steering loads have been so damaging to traditional steering boxes, is anyone else just a little dubious of trusting all steering duties to this little stick ???

Check the Modifications page guys. I've cut a new seat shape for the starboard side. Feels fantastic.........like a big boat.

Craig