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One of the biggest issues regarding gas prices is that there have been no new refineries built in the US in over 30 years. The "not in my back yard" and "save the spotted mud sucker" mentalities have cost us dearly in this respect.

There is plenty of crude available. Bush releasing some of the NOR is a purely political move (in essence, he HAD to do it - political suicide not to).

As far as nationalizing our resources, we capitalist pigs can manage anything better than the federal government. Amtrak, Social Security, Farm Subsidies all come to mind.

Honestly, on your boat, how much more is it costing you? If you cant afford to get your boat to the water and move it through the water because of gas prices, youve got no business owning a boat.

What the heck!

They have the (gas) supplies here, why do we have to pay the high price now? Adamavich asked.

Because gas stations can charge whatever they want for their product, if people are willing to pay for it, according to Erin Roth, executive director of the Wisconsin Petroleum Council, which represents most of the big-name gasoline brands in the state.

Youve got it, so youre going to sell it for what you can get for it, Roth said.

If retailers are pricing their gas too high, Roth said it wouldnt sell.

There is no law against so-called gas gouging in Wisconsin, and gas prices can be set at any price. Some stations in Milwaukee on Wednesday were at $3.29 a gallon for regular unleaded, about 60 cents higher than they were at the start of Tuesday.

Heck! I'm going anyways.

BK wrote:They get the oil free from our ground.

Simply not true. For example, oil companies operating in the Gulf of Mexico actually lease the "ground" from the Federal government. Their lease fees are a combination of fixed "rents" and percentages of the "take". I other words the federal government gets rent and a portion of the profits of the oil companies... Thus, those companies are paying "us", in the form of our federal government, for extracting oil from the Gulf...

I used to work as a control systems engineer for Chevron in offshore oil production out of New Orleans... A big part of my job was providing for certified metering of what was extracted. That metering was periodically inspected by the Feds, in the form of the MMS (Mineral Management Service - IIRC), since they were getting paid off those meters.

Therefore, to some extent we have

BK wrote:nationalize(d) our resources.

Please, I'm not trying to start arguments about whether the federal government truely represents "us", or whether big government is good or bad, etc... I'm merely saying that the big bad oil companies don't get it for free...

Hey, its all supply and demand. We, people world wide, demand gas and oil. Producers, mainly OPEC, and sometimes mother nature in the form of hurricanes, control supply.

I don't like high prices any more than anyone else, since I don't work for an oil company anymore.

But, instead of bitching about it, do something "smart" about it...

Sure, boycott oil and gas completely, if you like. More power to you.

But, all this talk about boycotting one (any one) oil company is just plain short sighted. Ok, so you run one company out of business. What's that going to do? Nothing, but lead to even higher prices, because all you've done is further constricted control over supply!

On edit:
Oh, and guess how those lease fees are set. By auction, IIRC! So, running any one company out of business will just reduce the number of bidders and therefore reduce what the remaining oil companies have to pay you to produce your oil and gas!

Also, I mentioned that OPEC controls supply. While I worked for Chevron, I was not aware of any decision to curtail supply to run up the price. In fact, just the opposite. All efforts were geared toward maximum "sensible" production. I say sensible to qualify it, as it wasn't reckless. EXTREME efforts were made to prevent spilling #1 Blood and #2 Oil into the Gulf... Besides that, there are geological/engineering reasons you don't produce a well above a certain limit...

Anyway, I too will jump off my soapbox...

im probably guilty of propagating this thread beyond reason so Ill get off my soapbox ..if anyone feels offended maybe we can take this up on sailing anarchy..

Click on

wwww.howgybingcenterboardswillreduceouroildependenceandmakethemacabluewaterboat.com

!!!

DLT wrote: Anyway, I too will jump off my soapbox...

Catigale wrote:so Ill get off my soapbox

Sjack wrote:Honestly, on your boat, how much more is it costing you? If you can’t afford to get your boat to the water and move it through the water because of gas prices, you’ve got no business owning a boat.

Exactly why I'm glad to have a thrifty, 4-stroke outboard instead one of those million-dollar Carvers.
Also ...
Exactly why I wish I'd chosen a Subaru instead of Sierra. Yesterday's fill-up was $65 for 24 g. (after my 03c Safeway discount Next week's fill-up might be $75 [/shrug]

DLT is spot-on. I travel to Asia several times per year. All of our pocket cash (for computers, TVs, DVD recorders, household goods) is going to Malaysia, China and Taiwan. They need oil and gasoline to produce all that stuff.

They're not riding bicycles in China any more, there are millions of brand new cars, consuming oil for their plastic interiors and to fill their tanks. It's like watching Japan in 1970s - deja vue (all over again)!

Planning next month to see the tallest bldg in the world in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Also saw in March the second tallest bldg in the world -Taipei, Taiwan. It's the busy hum of commerce and gasoline that's growing these monsters (not sure I'm referring to the buildings)!

We have a grain surplus every year in the U.S. We further pay farmers to not plant all their land. Grain can be fermented into alcohol fuel fairly easily. Cars and trucks could be converted into alcohol fuel burning at a relatively low cost if done on a major scale. Retrofitted existing cars, make more alcohol-electric hybrid cars. Save as much of Petroleum to make essential plastics, polycarbons, materials that can't be made otherwise, and minimize the loss of this UNRENEWABLE resource. Subsidize now, solar, wind, and other forms of power generation, research on clean nuclear fusion, if it ever gets anywhere.
'Won't happen as long as government is controlled by large $$$ interests favoring oil companies' status quo. Present energy policy is aimed at short-term survival mode while foreign policy is transparently and cynically masked as democracy and humanitarian-driven, while actually hostage to foreign oil supplies, everything in disregard of the eventual economic and ecologic suicide that will eventually result.

Frank wrote:Exactly why I'm glad to have a thrifty, 4-stroke outboard instead one of those million-dollar Carvers.

With all due respect, Frank: (I love that phrase. It really means, "Stand by, you're about to get a very healthy dose of disrepect...")

Crap. If you had a million dollars to spend on a boat, you'd have a Carver, or maybe a Swan 75, or six Beneteaus (Let's see: East Coast, Caribean, Great Lakes, West Coast, Pacific Islands and the Med?) And you wouldn't give a rat's a** whether gas was $1, $10 or $100 per gallon. Besides, you'd be buying diesel.

Same as me.

High gas prices don't make a Subaru any better a tow vehicle today than it was the day you bought the Sierra.

I drive a Mustang GT convertible I've had since 1989, and not once in 16 years do I wish I had instead bought the thrifty Mazda Miata, or even the V6 Mustang. When I get tired of putting lots of gas in it, I'll drive it less or park it in the garage. Unitl then, I'll be happy as long as I can get gas for it. Wish I'd had the money for a gas guzzler ZR-1 'Vette when I bought it...

Believe it or not, I'm with Chip on this one!!!

I cringe when I fill up the Excursion. But, I keep filling it up, because I like my toys...

If I had the money, yes, I'd own more gas guzzling toys...

That's the basic American mentality... Yes, there are times that I've seriously considered buying a hybrid or other fuel miserly vehicles. But, I never have because I just don't want to drive a go-cart...

I'm not saying that's a good attitude. But, its the only one I have... Most Americans agree with it, at least to varying degrees.

Yes, there are those that really truely honestly are more concerned with economy/environmental/etc. issues. Those people buy the hybrids. But, the hybrids just aren't very popular in the US. Certainly nowhere near as popluar as big SUVs... So, while I'm sure there are important statistical anomolies, the clear inference is us Americans are quite fat dumb and happy contributing to demand...

There was a commercial for a hybrid car, not too many years ago, the Prius, I think. The tag line was, essentially: Don't make a statement about the environment on your car (bumper stickers), make a statement with your car (buy a hybrid)...

So, I say don't bitch to me about what you're paying at the pump, while you're filling up your tank! The bottom line is that everytime you fill up your tank, you are contributing to the problem. Me, I'm fine with it and just accept that I'll pay whatever the market demands... No, I'm not happy about higher prices, but I'll still fill up my tank...

If you're not "fine with it" quit...

You say, but I have to drive to work! I say find a job closer to home or move closer to work! You say, but I can't! I say, why? People do it all the time... You may have to take a pay cut or live in a smaller house and that might mean you have to sacrifice your standard of living... But hey, how important is this issue to you?

Oh by the way, once you completely eliminate your driving, what have you accomplished? To my mind, nothing... The electricity you depend on is made by burning coal/coke/gas, etc... The concrete in the foundation of your home was made by buring coal/coke... If you don't cook and heat your home with electricity, you do so with natural gas. Oh wait a minute, there come those big bad oil companies again!

EVERYTHING you own or otherwise use was made and transported to you using non-renewable resources... Bottom line, we are dependent on non-renewable resources. Get over it! Or, do something "smart" about it!

Damn, how'd I get back on this box?

Believe me, I am all for research and development of renewable energy. I think solar panels are just about the neatest thing. But, we, as a country/planet, simply have not "decided" to develop/adopt those technologies yet... We, simply haven't made it a big enough priority. Until we do, we are going to ride out this supply/demand issue...

ALX357 wrote:..solar, wind, and other forms of power generation, research on clean nuclear fusion...

When nuclear fusion is mentioned on a message board for sailboats...

something is seriously wrong here!

Fusion? Something wrong indeed. Fusion would be great but fission works today. Instead of taking them out of commision, fire up the existing nukes to max capacity, build some more, then use the all the oil saved to make gasoline for my Expedition, so I can tow my Mac to the lake, so I can sail.

There, I got a mention of sailing in there; is that acceptable?

Curse the oil companies. I'm starting an Algae Farm


Heck I can use the stuff from my local lake.

Nothing gonna stop me and my SUV getting the boat to the water.

I just spent $800 on gas to the N/W and am bugged about it. Last year it was $600. Big jump.

In fact, I'd be opposite side of this political cartoon,
but these little movies are kinda funny: I can't afford my Gasoline!

P.S. On your second visit, be sure to click on the first movie, The Power of 4.
It takes you to this spoof-website maintained by Eveready as an Energizer promotion.
It's pretty funny too.


ETA:
If you're on a dial-up line, not sure you'll find 'em funny ...