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Would also love to add midships cleats.

FWIW we have used the winches and jamb cleats to secure spring lines at our slip for the past 2 years without issue. It's not ideal but works fine and is easily adjusted. We aren't depending on those lines to secure the boat, just to reduce hard yanking. No biggie if it fails.

Piddle and Futz wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:05 pm FWIW we have used the winches and jamb cleats to secure spring lines at our slip for the past 2 years without issue. It's not ideal but works fine and is easily adjusted. We aren't depending on those lines to secure the boat, just to reduce hard yanking. No biggie if it fails.

Why have I never thought of that. I may try using the winch as a spring point.

Hi All

While the Mac ratcheted winch may technically be strong enough to act as a spring tie point it, as a rotating assembly with bearings and spring pawls, wasn’t designed to take the kind of repetitive pounding loads that a spring line induces during a real storm event. The factory installed winches are fine for sail handling on a Mac. They were designed for that application. The way a Mac winch works to hold line tension is via a spring pawl and tooth arrangement. Around an internal post. There are several small pivot points for the pawls to react with to carry the line tension. If those fail or wear out then the winch ratchet doesn’t hold. I came to appreciate that early on when I decided to disassemble and service our winches.

I personally think that using it as a spring line anchor point would make it a very expensive sacrificial substitute for an inexpensive properly sized/installed fixed cleat.

Same goes for the jam cleats. The factory installed jam cleats are designed for sail line holding, not the repetitive substantial forces imposed during a storm event. If the securement of a spring line is accomplished by the wrapping of the spring line end around the winch barrel then slipped into the jam cleat this may prove out to be a bit precarious during a storm. The factory spring pawl jam cleat relies upon friction and serration to function. If the line works it’s way out of the jam cleat, or chews into the line, then the spring line now comes free.

To watch a marina during a real storm is to begin to appreciate the forces involved.
That’s not to say that a fixed cleat can’t fail, everything can fail if the forces are strong enough and last long enough. It’s just that a properly sized and installed deck cleat has a lot more going for it on a strength, durability and reliability perspective.

I’m not saying one can’t use a winch for a spring line anchor point, but that a properly located, sized and installed deck cleat would provide a more robust securement.

As always, Your boat - Your rules.

Best Regards,
Over Easy

I have a pair of the cleats, and they are sometimes handy, but with a couple of drawbacks. They can be toe catchers when moving around on the cabin roof deck. Also, they don't have a hole for lines in the middle, between the cleat horns, which means you can't thread the eye of a line through. You can only wrap the line around the cleat horns, and the tightening bolt tends to get a bit in the way.

Hi Chinook!

I was able to get these metal ones from my local marine supply.
They are Stainless Steel and matched the existing bow and stern cleats.

I believe they are Sea-Dog branded.
I like the 4 bolt open center design in that it allows for greater load distribution areas and securement redundancy.

Sea-Dog also offers a 2 bolt integral bolt design with an open center

That might be an option to consider though personally I would be utilizing a fabricated two hole backing plate with it rather than just the supplied washers.

Best Regards
Over Easy

Nice observation

OverEasy wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 8:56 am Hi All

While the Mac ratcheted winch may technically be strong enough to act as a spring tie point it, as a rotating assembly with bearings and spring pawls, wasn’t designed to take the kind of repetitive pounding loads that a spring line induces during a real storm event.

I rely on my midship line when docking into strong wind. I made a simple video attached although I bet there is a slick one on YouTube somewhere.
Before coming up with this method, as a newbie, I would approach the dock at a steep angle and if there was a dock hand, try to throw a line. That was hit or miss and an inexperienced hand would often mishandle the taut line and have to release it. Without a dockhand would mean a close pass and hope to snag a line I threw to a cleat.

First, let me stay on-topic. I didn’t see a good place to put a midship cleat. So instead of using a cleat, I secure a 20ft long line to the bow or stern. I have a smooth loop in the bitter end. Then I just drape it behind the mast support chainplate on the rail. Wallaa! Done!

Then, if there is a dockhand on the dock, I lay the bitter end loop at the bow and approach the dock at steep angle. The dockhand snags the cleat and I reverse to taut the line, then move slowly forward, keeping line taut, until the boat is tight up against the dock, Wheel is turned away from dock. Leave motor running, keeping boat tight at dock, and then get off and make other lines secure. Stop motor. Done.

If there is no dockhand, bring midship line to cockpit, approach dock in a manner that lets you snag a cleat yourself by leaning over the side (better if you can lasso the cleat or be safer, but I haven’t fallen out yet.) Then reverse to a taut line and move slowly forward as previously described.

https://youtu.be/tEFjSjUDt3E?si=cWAu8JwlVj5RhfV8

Hi Opie!

I love it!
The cinematography is really spot on!!!
Perfect!!!

Move over Cecil B DeMill!!!

Best Regards,
Over Easy

I use a line on a boathook

opie wrote: ↑Sat May 31, 2025 6:10 am
If there is no dockhand, bring midship line to cockpit, approach dock in a manner that lets you snag a cleat yourself by leaning over the side (better if you can lasso the cleat or be safer, but I haven’t fallen out yet.) Then reverse to a taut line and move slowly forward as previously described.

https://youtu.be/tEFjSjUDt3E?si=cWAu8JwlVj5RhfV8

O.E.:
Thanks. Animation could fill a new topic. For now, let’s say that I tried AI and failed so I scribbled on a napkin and took pictures….

DLA:
A boat hook is better, true…

One edit: I think my line used exceeds 20 ft.
Plus, I tape over the ringdings on the chainplate.

So far for docking my 25 I’ve just used a stanchion base for the midship line. It has the same size bolts and backing plate I would use for mounting a cleat. As long as you use the base so there is no significant lever arm, it’s really no different than a cleat.

Once docked there is usually a cleat on the dock roughly midship, so it gets a spring line from the bow and stern cleats. No midship attachment needed on the boat.