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Skim61 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:17 am I agree. Ridiculousness.

Not sure how a simple question for a mod that I choose to do to my boat has ruffled feathers. I was only looking for advice from someone who has pulled off the mod successfully. Imitation is a form of flattery. Though I wouldn't go to the extent Highlander did, that boat is truly in a class by itself.

I LlVE in Hawaii. I DO sail on both windward and leeward sides year round. I KNOW the conditions here. I DO NOT want to have a double furler. I DO want to make the mods I CHOOSE to my boat for my local conditions and you can scoff all you'd like.

ALOHA to all!

I still have no idea why a second forestay is required. It makes no sense. Exactly what are you trying to do?

A temporary forestay makes a lot of sense for me.

So I could hoist a jib without playing around with changing the big Genoa.

I thought about a temporary forestay attached at the cleats. Could it work?

kurz wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:55 am A temporary forestay makes a lot of sense for me.

So I could hoist a jib without playing around with changing the big Genoa.

I thought about a temporary forestay attached at the cleats. Could it work?

Why wouldn't you just furl the genoa down to 100%?

PSNA wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:13 am

kurz wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:55 am A temporary forestay makes a lot of sense for me.

So I could hoist a jib without playing around with changing the big Genoa.

I thought about a temporary forestay attached at the cleats. Could it work?

Why wouldn't you just furl the genoa down to 100%?

You can do so.

But the jib should sail better than the reefed Genoa.

It won't and that's my point.

It won't and that's my point.

Please clarify.

That statement is contrary what I have understood to be true.

I have a 150 Genoa, but since I don’t race, I don’t care about it not being as efficient as a jib when furled. Now you are saying there is no difference, or the difference is insignificant, so please explain.

By the way, don’t take this as any form of aggression, or attitude; I, and I’m sure others, are interested. The topic has been broached before.

If you were to take a 100% jib with hanks and one that is furled to that size and lay them side by side, they will not look the same.

They both have the same sail area. However, the one with hanks will have a better overall shape.

On a typical cruising boat (especially in higher wind speeds) the difference in performance just isn't that great. Especially when trim, leech, and foot lines are set properly. In lighter winds, you won't be using the 100.

A serious racer in a serious racing boat in a serious racing city will use every trick in the book to get an additional 1/4 knot in speed:

1. Separate headsails selected by current winds.
2. Move all the cruising junk hanging around on the boat. I've seen a lot of guys actually pull out heads and other furniture built into the boat.
3. Race with an almost empty fuel tank.
4. Using rail meat to balance the boat based on wind angles.

Even then some will use a furler as it may be a requirement of a one-design class. They then have their headsails built without Sunbrella or other acrylic UV covers.

And there are many ways to cheat. Especially on keelboats. Removing furniture and the head is cheating. Fairing the keel, etc.

Every boat has a theoretical hull speed. You are not going to exceed that unless you are going downwind with or without a following sea.

If furling systems were as big a drag on performance as you suggest, then no one would have them. And the vast majority of racers in PHRF would not as well.

I guaranty you will not see any significant change in performance regardless of what you choose.

Plenty of good articles out there on this subject. Furlers have been around since the 1930's.

First, I should say the question has come up for me due to finding a brand new 6oz Doyle furler genoa for $150 locally, and I just bought a new Rolly Tasker jib from BWY, as Todd and I agreed a jib is better for my windward conditions than a genoa rolled 50%, for 90% of the time. I'm not about to switch the sail on the CDI on a regular basis.

In my case, it's mostly situational. On Hawaii island, I have a choice of conditions depending on which side of the island I plop the boat into. Two hours away are completely different weather and sea conditions. On a good day, I can also sail around one of the points when I'm feeling especially aggressive (and lucky). But, just going out on the windward side where I live is exciting enough most days. Winds are 10+kn, seas no less than 1-3M, and depths are into the 1000s. There's no playing around, or you can end up on the rocks or in Fiji, if you survive.

The boat is usually in the water 3 weeks at a time. Having 2 foresails, each on its own furler, is easiest for me, and I don't want anything farther aft then the existing forestay. There needs to be room for fishing!

You being in Hawaii means you are sailing in conditions not experienced by the vast majority of us.

I for one think your reasoning is spot on.

The board member here that probably has the most expertise on building a bowsprit is Highlander, seek him out.

He may offer to show up to help out; if you pay for his travel expenses

Skim61 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:51 pm First, I should say the question has come up for me due to finding a brand new 6oz Doyle furler genoa for $150 locally,

You should probably buy a lottery ticket with luck like that.

Thanks, NiceAft, Highlander and I are already in contact.

JimmyT...if only Hawaii has lottery! Not positive on the luck, though, since the genoa was listed 2 weeks after buying the jib due to my original genoa getting shredded! Now, since I can never pass up a good deal, I'm looking at the cost of a 2nd CDI. While Koloa is sitting in my driveway for yearly maintenance! Today was blue gelcoat scratch repair day! Oooh fun.

Thanks, NiceAft, Highlander and I are already in contact.

Did you offer to pay for his plane ticket

Ok. Now I understand. This has absolutely nothing to do with the performance of a hanked-on jib vs a furled one.

concerning Jib and 150 Genoa:

If the Genoa is reefed/furled to Jib ...
So the big part of the reefed genoa sail is much higher. Most of the jib m2 sits very low. I guess that a reefed genoa will give more heal to the boat. If you will notice or not... Hast to say who changed cloth in more or less the same winds...

NiceAft wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:57 pm

Thanks, NiceAft, Highlander and I are already in contact.

Did you offer to pay for his plane ticket

Now that,s an offer i,d not turn down LOL

J