M forestay

[BOAT]

Any chance that Dyneema would be better on the forestay??

I don't know much about these things but it seems to me that a forestay that was a bit more flexible would stand up better to the wear?

There is very little force on the forestay so making it larger is not really needed except for the issue of making it last longer (kurz is right about that) all the force on the mast is forward - (the genoa puts the most amount of stress on the forestay) and that's not really a lot - if you let the genoa bang around in the wind a lot it will make the ring ding fall out.

Has anyone tried something other than a steel cable? Would the new modern materials be better? (It seems odd to me because if the new stuff is better I would thing that BWY would be offering it).

Any experts on the Dyneema here?

Is Dyneema out of the question because of the furling thing?

[Russ]

Excellent question BOAT.

The single most common failure point on the headstay seems to be at the top where it flexes and attaches to the hound. That's where most of us have reported broken strands.

If this stuff is as strong as steel, why not make a headstay from it? Would solve that flex/fatigue issue.
I have Dyneema on my ATV's winch. I had to replace it once and it was so hard to cut that stuff.

The furler is the issue though. I don't know how it would work with the furler stuffs spinning around it.

[Spector]

I'd be concerned about the abrasion at the contact points of the furler with a Dyneema forestay. A hank on sail might be Ok but I wouldn't use it myself with a furler. I plan on doing the lifelines with Dyneema at some point

[kurz]

Interisting, BOAT.
I dont think you can get a textil forestay ready made for installation. You had to first put it inside the furler. In a second step you had to make professionally the connection to the drum or to the top as far I could imagine.

I think at the top where the furler ends you will have to much contact/abrasion.

I still am not shure if a togle will stop the kinks! CDI in their manual request it. Why does Roger McGregor not mount it? Did he save money?

A toggle takes at lest 40mm of length... This does not make me happy. Becouse to adjust the turnbuckle INSIDE the CDI drum you need tu push up the furler. If you have at the top a minus of free space becouse of the toggle of MINUS 40mm it will be even more problematic to work with the turnbuckle.


So I am thinking about crimping mysel the loop at the toop and make the crimps closer. Save maybe 10mm. Then insteat of a toggle use a small SHAKLE of 20mm. So this configuration shuld do the same like a toggle. Free movements from right to left and back and forwards.

ANY CONERNS?

[C Buchs]

The other issue with Dyneema that hasn't been brought up here is that it's susceptible to UV damage. For that reason, I don't think it will last as long as stainless. I put "Dyneema" in the new search function and found a few historical threads here specific to Dyneema.

Jeff

[BOAT]

Interisting, BOAT.
I dont think you can get a textil forestay ready made for installation. You had to first put it inside the furler. In a second step you had to make professionally the connection to the drum or to the top as far I could imagine.

I think at the top where the furler ends you will have to much contact/abrasion.

I still am not shure if a togle will stop the kinks! CDI in their manual request it. Why does Roger McGregor not mount it? Did he save money?

A toggle takes at lest 40mm of length... This does not make me happy. Becouse to adjust the turnbuckle INSIDE the CDI drum you need tu push up the furler. If you have at the top a minus of free space becouse of the toggle of MINUS 40mm it will be even more problematic to work with the turnbuckle.


So I am thinking about crimping mysel the loop at the toop and make the crimps closer. Save maybe 10mm. Then insteat of a toggle use a small SHAKLE of 20mm. So this configuration shuld do the same like a toggle. Free movements from right to left and back and forwards.

ANY CONERNS?

Yeah kurz - you bring in all the important facts. The furler I have is the black plastic cheapy open one they made at the factory on the last boats and that one does not require the toggle in the manual, (although it probably should) - there is a reason.

As far as the factory is concerned this is actually a problem on all fractional rigs - the problem is the size of the jib. One of the reasons we end up with such a big bedsheet on our forestay is because the luff is so short - the distance from the head to the tack is limited by the connection of the forestay to the mast - and you really can't fly a genoa off the top of the mast cuz there ain't no backstay (that's why the Highlander added backstays - so he could fly stuff off the masthead) We mortals can't do that.

SO, we end up with fore sails that have really big feet that drag all over the deck and make our boats clumsy and poor dancers. If you could move the head of the genoa to the top of the mast you could fly a much narrower foresail and have less heel but the same speed. (Ahh - nice tall narrow sails just like the race boats!)

Alas, we can't do that so Roger of course like every other boat manufacturer that makes fractional rigs tried to make the forestay as long as possible with the least amount of hardware to make the most room for most sail luff. Toggles and stuff reduce the amount of useable forestay for hanging a sail - (which is why I have never installed one) .

And it appears the Dyneema idea is a dumb one too (figures, I would come up with a dumb one).

The furler makes a steel stay necessary - so I guess that's just the way it is.

[Highlander]

Boat
here u can see the adjustable back stay on it,s traveler


in this pic u can see the traveler car so as the mast turns to port or starboard the back stay can b adjust to any position required as as it is always pulling the mast backwards & not sideways negating the need for running back stays




J

[BOAT]

John, as I recall you also run the open plastic factory furler on your ("forestaysail"?) Is that right? I don't know the parts of a cutter rig too well and one of the things I am confused about is the rigging on your "jib" ( well, the thing you fly from the bowsprit) -

The question I have on that sail is: does it go all the way to the mast head or does that sail go to the spinnaker hound??

That's why I can't properly identify that sail here - if it goes all the way to the mast head it's not your jib - it's a "flying jib", but if it terminates lower than the mainsail head it's your "jib". All I know is that's the sail you usually fly off a big black Harkin unit - do you know which one I am talking about?

That's the sail that needs the back stay? The "flying jib" for sure would need one - right? If that sail only goes to the spinnaker hound would it still need a backstay? Or is the backstay because there are two foresails? I'm a little sketchy on your sail plan.

[Highlander]

BOAT
My boat has 4 furler,s #1 profurl spinnaker furler is mounted at the end of my 4ft bowsprit an runs up to the masthead , #2 is a harken furler 3ft out on my bowsprit holds my Genny runs up the mast to the halfway point between the original Jib halyard & masthead , #3 is also a harken furler holds my Jib runs up to the original forestay mast hound , # 4 is a harken small boat furler fitted to the deck just in front of the escape hatch holds my storm jib which runs up to the original spreader masthound for the lower mast stays , the second set of top spreaders were add at the original jib mast hound for the original jib forestay
A 3rd set of masthead shrouds & 2nd set of spreaders above the original spreaders & a backstay allows me to run this set up with no fears lots of added mast support
look at the pic above for detail

J

[Highlander]

In this pic u can see the Genny & Jib in action together



J

[BOAT]

In this pic u can see the Genny & Jib in action together



J

What's best speed on that rig?

[Highlander]

can,t remember now but never really paid much attn to it was too busy at the time when these pic, were taken as I had just installed the 7ft genny tracks to the roof top & was too busy trying to figure out the best possition for the sheet cars , it,s a busy boat to sail , but 4 furler,s make it much easier lol

J

[BOAT]

can,t remember now but never really paid much attn to it was too busy at the time when these pic, were taken as I had just installed the 7ft genny tracks to the roof top & was too busy trying to figure out the best possition for the sheet cars , it,s a busy boat to sail , but 4 furler,s make it much easier lol

J

Yeah, whenever I hear a M boat sailor complain about all the line tending on his MAC I always send them a picture of your boat and that shuts them up pretty quick.

I'm rigged for hands off cruising - most the time I am napping in the cockpit and the wife is looking for sea animals. Not a lot of line tending on 'boat' - so I tend to watch the speed indicator a lot as I am not interested in sea creatures.

[Starscream]

I follow a few sailing channels on Youtube: Bums on a Boat, Atticus, Rigging Doctor, UMA, and GBU. Way better than watching TV.

Love the Rigging Doctor: down to earth, very "human", funny, and fully electric, as is UMA. Here's a rigging doctor episode on synthetic rigging:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqPf-i1jy10