Sail shape - what am I doing wrong?

[romandesign]

(You do release them when flying sail don't you?)

Also, I've never seen a lazy jack configuration quite like that.
Not sure if that might be contributing to why they're so tight.

No, I don't release them, I didn't know I"m supposed to do that. So maybe I am doing something wrong! Not sure how to release them though: they will be just hanging a flapping about near the mast, getting in the way, difficult to attach when needed... How do you supposed to release them and then reattach them? My lazy jacks have a bungee cord in the bottom part, and top part are two normal lines with loops on each side. Normal configuration would have M shaped bungee line on each side, attached to the mast, mid-boom, and farther aft on the boom. But butten would always get caugh when raising the sail, so I use the mid-boom twice, so the shape is N now, with the right part doubled. It still works and batten gets caught less often. Doesn't make it tighter, maybe even a bit looser. That's why it looks odd, I guess.

Do you know how to release them without them detached and flapping around?

[sailboatmike]

Interesting the creases line up with aft lazy jack, the lazy jacks should be loose when the sail is hoisted

Here is a link to some lazy jack rigging tips, you will see a very familiar creases in the sail when its adjusted too tight

https://stingysailor.com/2014/07/04/tra ... y-jacks-2/

[C Buchs]

Interesting the creases line up with aft lazy jack, the lazy jacks should be loose when the sail is hoisted

Here is a link to some lazy jack rigging tips, you will see a very familiar creases in the sail when its adjusted too tight

https://stingysailor.com/2014/07/04/tra ... y-jacks-2/

That's a great article! I was going to suggest the video that Galactica made of the system on his 26M and this article has a link to it.

Jeff

[DaveC426913]

You definitely need to have lazy jacks loose when under sail.
And they must be tight in order to do their job when you drop the sail.
Therefore, any lazy jack system must have a way or hardening and easing them.

Do you know how to release them without them detached and flapping around?

Do you know when/ by whom they were installed? It is entirely possible they were installed incorrectly.

Here is the most basic lazy jack system:

Three things of note:
1] The bitter end of the jack lines can be seen in the lower left corner, in a cleat on the boom. Pull and lock to harden jack lines; unlock to ease them.
2] The lower lines must be free to run through the tiny blocks, so that unlocking the bitter end releases the lines everywhere, both sides, front, back.
3] The aft jack line runs under the boom (it is a single continuous line) through a simple ring (not shown, but it's there), so that it does not flop all over the place and end up at the mast.




Here is my setup, which shows all the necessary hardware and attachment points:
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ewimg=4139

Your local chandlery is likely to have a generic lazy-jack kit for your sized boat. This is what I bought. It cost $70. It's well worth it.

Sorry, here's a full-sized image:

[dlandersson]

Yeah, I love my lazy jack.

[sailboatmike]

You can make it even cheaper if you use rings instead of blocks and the rings will be easier on the sails if they rub

http://www.downwindmarine.com/Ronstan-R ... 01805.html

[Tomfoolery]

romandesign: My keel boat had a three-legged version of the above. The ends of each cleated line had a stopper knot, so when I slacked them just before raising the main, I would pull both set of LJs to the boom hinge and strap them with a little bungie that lived there. That way, they layed tight to the mast and to the boom, didn't interfere with the battens while raising, and didn't annoy the sail while under way.

The lines were marked with a black stripe so I knew how far to pull them in and cleat them prior to dropping the sail. It all worked very well as lazy jack systems go.

I would rerig what you have by adding an attachment on each side of the boom further back, or a single eye strap under the boom as shown above, as the attachment of the most forward line in the pic is doing nothing to control the sail. In other words, move the whole thing back by starting with the aft-most eye strap, and adding another further back. But I would seriously consider using small cheek blocks closest to the mast, so you can easily slacken them.

Oh, and mine used metal loops or grommets instead of small blocks on the lines for equalization, as suggested earlier. Lighter, cheaper, and less damaging to the sail (presumably) if you don't bring them forward to the mast when sailing.

[DaveC426913]

I would rerig what you have by adding an attachment on each side of the boom further back, or a single eye strap under the boom as shown above, as the attachment of the most forward line in the pic is doing nothing to control the sail. In other words, move the whole thing back by starting with the aft-most eye strap, and adding another further back. But I would seriously consider using small cheek blocks closest to the mast, so you can easily slacken them.

Is this advice to me, based on my system? Or to the OP, based on his?

I don't quite follow your suggestions.

[Tomfoolery]

Sorry about that, Dave. I was using your pic as an example of a very good arrangement, which was similar to what I had on my last boat (but with three legs). I edited out the quote code to prevent confusion.

[romandesign]

Interesting the creases line up with aft lazy jack, the lazy jacks should be loose when the sail is hoisted

Here is a link to some lazy jack rigging tips, you will see a very familiar creases in the sail when its adjusted too tight

https://stingysailor.com/2014/07/04/tra ... y-jacks-2/

Great article! This is almost exactly the system I have. I will try to tie it up tp the spreaders so it's wide at the top: it will solve the problem of batten getting caught when raising sail, and maybe also will be enough to not affect the sail shape. If the sail will still touch the lazy jacks at the bottom, I will rig something to be able to slack them a bit.

I will also cut the bolt rope stitches and try to stretch the sail and re-stitch. Next season I will see if it made a difference, I hope it will.

[DaveC426913]

https://stingysailor.com/2014/07/04/tra ... y-jacks-2/

Great article!
I really like the idea of widening the top of the lazy jacks by attaching them directly to the spreaders. I may implement that.

But I'm mulling over whether his shock system is better.

On my system, at haulout I can simply disengage the aft lazy jack loop from its eyestrap on the underside of the boom, so that it can be brought forward to the mast and off the boom:

(Image is upside down to installation)
A hook won't do. It needs to capture the line (or it will just fall out when slack) but still be releasable when necessary.

On the other hand, when underway, I have to manually harden and ease the lazy jacks on a cleat. His system of a simple bungie on a hook might be way simpler; I'm just not sure. Have to look at it more carefully.

[DaveC426913]

I'm a bit confused about his shock cord system. It looks to me like the whole lower half is shock cord. It is hardened by hanging it on the mid-boom hook (forming the 'M').

But, to ease his lazy jacks, he takes it off the mid-boom hook. This makes the 'M' turn into an upside down 'U' across the two flying eyestraps. But the mid-point of the shock cord, between the two eyestraps, is now several feet above the deck, out of reach. How does he get it back down? Does he climb onto the cabin top to retrieve it?

[romandesign]

I'm a bit confused about his shock cord system. It looks to me like the whole lower half is shock cord. It is hardened by hanging it on the mid-boom hook (forming the 'M').

But, to ease his lazy jacks, he takes it off the mid-boom hook. This makes the 'M' turn into an upside down 'U' across the two flying eyestraps. But the mid-point of the shock cord, between the two eyestraps, is now several feet above the deck, out of reach. How does he get it back down? Does he climb onto the cabin top to retrieve it?

Exactly, that's what I'm not getting too. That's how I understood it, just as you did. And I have the same hook in the mid-boom too. But if I release it, I will need to have to go on deck to reach it, which is not good: my whole rig is made to work from cockpit, I'm trying to be as safe as I can, so having to do up to tighten the lazy jacks defeats the purpose of them being there: not needing to go up to lower the sail.

I think I'll see if just making lazyjacks wide will be enough to not interfere with the sail. If not, maybe I'll rig something so I can release the back hook, maybe some kind of extension of that line that I can pull back to hook it back. Question is what to do with extra line when it's tight, cause it will be in the way and ready to get caught on something, so not good. Still thinking what to do there... Maybe have a short line with two carabiners ready and just extend the lazyjack line with it when releasing, and unclip and stow somewhere when tightening.

[DaveC426913]

Exactly, that's what I'm not getting too. That's how I understood it, just as you did. And I have the same hook in the mid-boom too. But if I release it, I will need to have to go on deck to reach it, which is not good: my whole rig is made to work from cockpit, I'm trying to be as safe as I can, so having to do up to tighten the lazy jacks defeats the purpose of them being there: not needing to go up to lower the sail.

I've posted a comment on his site asking for clarification. I'll repost it here if/when he responds.


Seems to me, if you replaced that mid-boom hook with another cheek block, you could harden and ease the whole shock system from the aft of the boom. Don't need to disengage it from the centre at all. (Though shock cord can surely twist and jam in small blocks)

But it still leaves the question of what you do with six feet of shock cord dangling in front of the helm.