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Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:25 am
by kadet
sailboatmike wrote:In the not so far off future we will be using lippo batteries and be able to fit a three or four hundred amps of storage in battery lockers for no net gain in weight over the lead acids.

And the best part is we will be able to recharge them in next too no time as lippo can take stupid high recharge rates that one only dreams of with lead acid or gel cell
Yep once LiFePO4 batteries with inbuilt BMS drop about 40% in price they will be the way to go. I have been very tempted by some cheap 12v E-Bike batteries out of China 60AH for about $350. But just don't trust them enough yet from cheppo manufactures cause LiFePO4 die easily and sometimes spectacularly :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9mcNvOGKtI

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:24 pm
by sailboatmike
I love my Ebike, looks exactly the same as a motor scooter but not as fast, not only is it economical its so much fun to ride.

Beats starting up the 4 x 4 for a quick trip to the shops and pick up kids from school 2 or 3 times a day

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:59 pm
by DaveC426913
Bilgemaster wrote:
DaveC426913 wrote: It's not clear to me if you've hauled yours in to an auto parts joint for a proper "load test" (just a voltage reading won't do: that could just be a quickly dissipating "surface charge"), but if not, that trip should be step one.
Canadian Tire auto department. They stuck them in one of their machines to charge it. Within ten minutes the guy took it off and said it's fully charged and holding fine.

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:05 pm
by DaveC426913
NiceAft wrote: Do you use dielectric grease on the connections to the cathode(+) and anode(-). Poor conductivity can be a real problem.
No, but that sounds like a good idea. The connections were green with oxidation. I'm fairly confident that was the problem.
NiceAft wrote:What I have been told by my marine mechanic is to get rid of the nuts that hold all wires onto the anode and cathode, and replace them with thumb screws nuts.
You mean wing nuts? Yeah. One has them already. I just bought a pair for the other battery.
NiceAft wrote: I admit that starting at the dock, and not starting after awhile on the water sounds like a charging problem, but if the bouncing around loosens a connection, might that make low enough conductivity to just get clicks instead of ignition.
Especially since, when I tried it 20 minutes later, it started OK**. That's what made me suspect a bad connection.

**(Not in time to save the paint on my centreboard and rudders, when I went into irons at the lagoon entrance, but still..)

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:39 pm
by Bilgemaster
DaveC426913 wrote:
Bilgemaster wrote:
DaveC426913 wrote: It's not clear to me if you've hauled yours in to an auto parts joint for a proper "load test" (just a voltage reading won't do: that could just be a quickly dissipating "surface charge"), but if not, that trip should be step one.
Canadian Tire auto department. They stuck them in one of their machines to charge it. Within ten minutes the guy took it off and said it's fully charged and holding fine.
Well...that's still not a "load test" as such, but if that guy at Canadian Tire says the batteries look fine, they most likely are. My hunch is he'll have seen more than a few batteries that weren't fine. In fact, given your rather more battery-challenging climate way up there, I'd have to guess that sizing up batteries by sight might be a common folksy skill or even an amusing parlor game during those long dark months when those glaciers are rolling majestically down through the tundra and into the Tim Hortons parking lots as the raging winds carry the scent of hot poutine to the sled dogs, howling with yearning in their igloo-like enclosures. Brrrrrrr!

Of course, if you ever wanted to do a proper load test youself, there's plenty of YouTube videos showing all manner of DIY load testing strategies using just a multimeter, which you'll be needing anyhow if you plan to make any real headway in sorting out your electrics yourself. Or, you could splurge on a nice Schumacher analog or other brands of dedicated load testers for about $20 American or less. Alternatively. and maybe even better than metered load testing, if you have regular "old school" non-sealed lead acid batteries (the type with the removable caps), you could also take something called a battery hydrometer to each of the cells to check their individual conditions. They typically run less than 5 bucks or loonies or whatever--Affordable elegance for real knowledge of the batteries' true state. Just do the hydrometer thing whenever you're topping off those cells with distilled water (at least annually, better yet every few months), and you'll have no surprises.

If, as it seems, you don't already have one, you'll definitely want your own battery charger sooner rather than later, instead of dragging them in to the shop. The more you keep them tip-top the happier they'll be and the longer they'll last. Given your appalling climate (at least to someone like me south of the Mason-Dixon line with short shirt sleeve December afternoons), frankly I'd have thought every Canadian might typically have at least a half dozen chargers, with perhaps one "special one" reserved as a "marital aid" to help bring that "special spark" back into the marriage. Yup, it gets mighty cold up there. I'll bet Maine would seem like the damned Bahamas to some guy staring at a well head in Moose Jaw or trying to remember what the sun once looked like in Yellow Knife. OK...You're in Toronto, but still...

Anyhow, best of luck in your rats nest hunt! If you're lucky, a little wire brushing and cleaning and the odd bit of rewiring with fresh connectors, and she might be whole and hardy in no time. Like I said earlier, Don Casey's book may help. At least it seems to have kept me from doing anything TOO sub-moronic.

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:04 pm
by DaveC426913
Bilgemaster wrote:
DaveC426913 wrote:
Bilgemaster wrote:
If, as it seems, you don't already have one, you'll definitely want your own battery charger sooner rather than later, instead of dragging them in to the shop.
I have two. But I don't really need them except in the winter. My slip has shore power, so I just plug it in at night.

I also keep an emergency backup battery (sort of like this but smaller) on board.


Image

And, if I weren't such a scatterbrain I would have remembered I had it just for this situation. I practically tripped over it when going to check the batteries once I reached shore. Duh.

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:28 am
by Québec 1
I got a 750 amp booster at Canadian tire for 100$. (On sale) It's the size of 3 bars of soap. I've used it twice this year as I'm on a mooring and had to learn to be battery smart. It started the Honda 50 at the first turn and still marks 100% charged. It holds its charge for 12 months. I no longer worry about battery use while sailing. Inexpensive insurance. https://m.canadiantire.ca/products/prod ... Name=ATLAS

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:04 pm
by Highlander
I have this one got it on sale couple of months ago
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/noco- ... p.html#srp
weighs only about 5#
J 8)

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:16 pm
by Highlander
DaveC426913 wrote:
Bilgemaster wrote:
DaveC426913 wrote: It's not clear to me if you've hauled yours in to an auto parts joint for a proper "load test" (just a voltage reading won't do: that could just be a quickly dissipating "surface charge"), but if not, that trip should be step one.
Canadian Tire auto department. They stuck them in one of their machines to charge it. Within ten minutes the guy took it off and said it's fully charged and holding fine.
U did not get a proper battery test . It takes about 1 1/2hrs to do a good battery test that,s required if ur battery is still under warranty & the test results r shipped with the bad battery back to the manufacturer otherwise the batt dealer will not b compensated back

U got a quick diagnostic so the batts could b or not b good !!

J :(

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:58 pm
by DaveC426913
Highlander wrote: U got a quick diagnostic so the batts could b or not b good !!
Well, the point is they were fully charged. Which means they weren't the source of the problem.

Once I put them back in, my motor has been fine. But most importantly, I now know that, in the future, I need to maintain a good connection at the terminals.

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:57 pm
by Highlander
DaveC426913 wrote:
Highlander wrote: U got a quick diagnostic so the batts could b or not b good !!
Well, the point is they were fully charged. Which means they weren't the source of the problem.

Once I put them back in, my motor has been fine. But most importantly, I now know that, in the future, I need to maintain a good connection at the terminals.
Doe,s not mean crap "Fully Charged Batt,s " if bad will loose their charge really fast in cold weather or under a medium load for a short term !

But then what do I know :arrow: :idea:

J 8)

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:48 pm
by DaveC426913
Highlander wrote: Doe,s not mean crap "Fully Charged Batt,s " if bad will loose their charge really fast in cold weather or under a medium load for a short term !
Sure, but since I found the problem, there's no reason to suppose there's anything wrong with the batteries.

If they continue to misbehave though, I'll definitely revisit that.

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:08 am
by Catigale
How did sled dogs get into a battery thread??

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:29 pm
by Bilgemaster
Catigale wrote:How did sled dogs get into a battery thread??
With "mush" difficulty. Iditarod think they'd be relevant.

Re: batteries - charge or replace?

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:24 pm
by DaveC426913
Hmph. You guy's think you're all clever and fast. Well, I'm here to expose your dirty little cheating secret...

The water in your lakes and rivers is a liquid. Yes a LIQUID! A butter knife could cut through your water! What do you think of that, princesses!!! AHAHAHAHA!

Actual footage of a Canadian-rigged Mac.
Image