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dlandersson wrote:I use a 150% Genoa (which I will "shorten" if the wind conditions warrants it.

Not aguing with anyone, but I routinely sail close hauled (up to 30 degrees) with no problem. I find my best speed is at 45 - 60 degrees.

Maybe mine is just badly blown out. It was on the boat when I got it. The jib felt stiff and plastic, so I suspect the PO didn't use it much. I know my main, which I suspect is also original, is a bed sheet, and that ain't helpin'.

I may try the genoa again, just for grins.

I am having a hard time believing anyone getting their best speed at a heel between 45 and 60 degrees, and not at 10 to 15 degrees. the wind is spilling out of the sails.

I am not a stranger to sailing at an extreme heel, and while it is exhilarating, your not getting anywhere real fast.

Ray

I struggle with that too, it defies the laws of nature but it is what it is and whatever floats ones boat

I think he meant 45 to 60 degrees to the wind, not 45 to 60 degrees of heel. Getting good speed at 45 to the wind is better than I can do, I need at least 55 degrees to make any kind of headway.

I purchased a new sail from BWY in 2015, It is a square top 5.0 dacron, 2 reef points, full battens Note the square is a little rounded on the top and not like some of the images I have seen on this site. It also has a loose foot. I do not need to remove the top batten when adding the sail cover. The sail appears to be thicker too so it is more difficult to attach the sail cover but not a problem at all and I see no need to buy a cover.

The boat does not heel as much and that is for sure. In high winds the square top sail appears to open up to spill winds up high on the mast so I find it far more comfortable than my old main sail. I am happy with the purchase.

FishyFabs wrote:I purchased a new sail from BWY in 2015, It is a square top 5.0 dacron, 2 reef points, full battens Note the square is a little rounded on the top and not like some of the images I have seen on this site. It also has a loose foot. I do not need to remove the top batten when adding the sail cover. The sail appears to be thicker too so it is more difficult to attach the sail cover but not a problem at all and I see no need to buy a cover.

The boat does not heel as much and that is for sure. In high winds the square top sail appears to open up to spill winds up high on the mast so I find it far more comfortable than my old main sail. I am happy with the purchase.

Thanks for that. How does she perform now? What are you flying for a head sail? Did you go to a jib or keep what you had?

She is faster for sure. I still have a 150 Genoa on a roller.

Well, I have decided on the BWY sails. I'm going to get the flat top main with two reef points and the Jib. I think it will be a different animal all together. Apparently the the main is 5.0 Dacron and the Jib is 5.5. Sounds like it will last a lot longer and sail a heck of a lot better. The only drawback I can think of will be dead down wind where an asymmetrical would really rock. That's a thousand dollar bill that will have to wait.
Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it.

Seems a reasonable option, I went with the BWY sails, I believe they are a good quality while not emptying the bank account too much, I would of loved Judy B (Hyde sails) but import rules here would of made them prohibitive in cost when all the extras were added on.

Asymmetrics are not meant for dead down wind sailing, that would be a symmetric spinnaker and even then dead down wind is like playing Russian Roulette just waiting for the crash gybe and the possible dollars bill burning involved in that.

Asymmetrics are a better sail IMHO, certainly have greater application on wider wind angles than a symmetric and of course much easier to set and retrieve short handed. Im making a bow sprit to make mine easier to gybe when we finally get to fly her

I can't do any references as to the jib, but when going down wind, I have done wing on wing with my flat head and my 150 genoa. It's a nice sight.

Ray

sailboatmike wrote:Seems a reasonable option, I went with the BWY sails, I believe they are a good quality while not emptying the bank account too much, I would of loved Judy B (Hyde sails) but import rules here would of made them prohibitive in cost when all the extras were added on.

Asymmetrics are not meant for dead down wind sailing, that would be a symmetric spinnaker and even then dead down wind is like playing Russian Roulette just waiting for the crash gybe and the possible dollars bill burning involved in that.

Asymmetrics are a better sail IMHO, certainly have greater application on wider wind angles than a symmetric and of course much easier to set and retrieve short handed. Im making a bow sprit to make mine easier to gybe when we finally get to fly her

Thanks for the info. I called Hyde as well and the didn't return my phone call. I can't imagine they would be any better one way or another than Doyle or the sails from BWY.

NiceAft wrote:I am having a hard time believing anyone getting their best speed at a heel between 45 and 60 degrees, and not at 10 to 15 degrees. the wind is spilling out of the sails.

I am not a stranger to sailing at an extreme heel, and while it is exhilarating, your not getting anywhere real fast.

Ray

Well said.
It's a lot more fun at extreme angles, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are going faster because of it.

FlatHead, SquareHead, MuscleHead? Are these all the same?
Quite some years back there was a company called Kelly-Hanson I think, anyway they or someone designed a big main and dubbed it the 'MuscleHead', it featured a bigger roach and square top with full battens. (200 sq.ft 5 oz Dacron) There was a limited number of them produced for about $8-900 IIRC. There were several on this site who acquired one, myself included. Is the BWY Flathead the same animal? I leave that top batten in and just disconnect the top sail slug via a tiny d-shackle when it is time to cover the main, the whole top board then drops onto the boom. Over the years I have found it to be a pain cause if I want that sail right completely down I have to go forward to the mast, stand there and undo that tiny little d-shackle without dropping it, have not dropped it yet but give me time and I will. Sometimes I disconnect while underway on my return to my slip and it is quite a balancing act. Anyway just wondering how the bwy flathead compares in design. Anyone know?

If your trying to reduce heeling I would not recommend a muscle head sail.

The M rig is a tall rig and really does not need it - the muscle head was designed for boats with shorter masts.

I have purchased Doyle sails in the past and they have a loft in Costa Mesa just north of here.

My next set of sails I might seriously consider going MYLAR.

I ended up getting the BWY sails that I was looking at. I couldn't be happier! The boat is completely different in how she sails. Much better in every metric. I can't say enough about how much better the boat is and would highly recommend them to anyone.