MacGregorSailors.com

The amount of "bold" in all of us boys reduces exponentially with experience level. The Admiral has been my retarding force
No issues Boatman - I have learnt a lot from your posts, keep em coming!!! With your obvious experience level you saw things I didnt and am sure there are others who have had the 'ahah' flash from your posts. If all opinions were benign, life would be boring.

For me, the take home lesson is regarding the inexperienced crew member having the tiller (wheel?) hard over, making any maneuvering impossible. As the skipper, I need to always be clear on what is needed when someone else is helming (btw, my 7 year old grandson does a pretty good job behind the wheel, and he reacts immediately to instructions from me). The other lesson I take from this is to sort out all sail furling before you have to. I get caught out sometimes needing to bring in the main single-handed in traffic. This is never a good idea. The more experience I get, the more time and open water I give myself to get everything in order.

One more post here - this is one that has had me stumped since the first time I studied it - to this day I can't figure out how this boat flipped over:

Read the news story:

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

The boat was a MacGregor X boat - witnesses say all 11 prople on board were distributed evenly on the deck - the weather was calm - there were no waves. The boat had the ballast empty, and was under power moving very slowly.

Now - this boat had been sitting just fine in the water for over an hour with all on board with no problems - then all of a sudden moving slowly it just tips over???? What's up with that???

Can anyone explain this - the boat was not going fast enough to get a lift from the centerboard - so what tipped it over?????

That was the incident that gives me nightmares.

Somewhere I read that the capsize was initiated by raft-up lines that weren't properly untied when the drunk captain headed for home. But I can't find the source of that info.

Several adults on the cabin top as well as an overloaded boat and no ballast.

I remember when that happened.

There were many boats out that night watching a fireworks display. When it was over, the tragic accident happened.

Try and imaging a Mac overloaded, no ballast, people on deck, and wakes of all sizes, coming from all directions, as powerboats of all sizes started to boogie out of there. Do you really believe that it was highly probable that a drunk skipper was concerned that the weight on the boat was evenly distributed? And does it matter when the water is anything but stable?

In addition to that, the Mac owners manual states that with an empty ballast, there should not be anyone on deck.

It really is not difficult to picture why that boat flipped.

For thirty-seven years we have been going to Lake George (The north end of L. George empties into L. Champlain). During the summer, every Thursday in Lake George Village, there is an evening fireworks display. I keep wanting to motor my to the event, but change my mind I when remember what it looks like when the show comes to an end. It looks like fish in the water shooting off in all directions when a predator appears. I don't want to be on the water during those moments. A smart man knows how to get out of situations that a wise man would not get into in the first place.

Ray

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/vt-supreme-c ... 80797.html

Interesting reading about the captain's appeal of his conviction. He claimed that the M model was introduced because of the inherent instability of the X. The addition of the permanent ballast in the M was claimed to be proof that the manufacturer knew the X boat was unstable.

According to that argument all of us X'ers should be long gone.

Rodger fought that logic vigorously.

Ray

Starscream wrote:That was the incident that gives me nightmares.

Somewhere I read that the capsize was initiated by raft-up lines that weren't properly untied when the drunk captain headed for home. But I can't find the source of that info.

Several adults on the cabin top as well as an overloaded boat and no ballast.

The people on the other boat testified that the ropes were completely clear between the boats and the boat had already moved off before it capsized - I checked into that one too. That was not it.

NiceAft wrote:I remember when that happened.

There were many boats out that night watching a fireworks display. When it was over, the tragic accident happened.

Try and imaging a Mac overloaded, no ballast, people on deck, and wakes of all sizes, coming from all directions, as powerboats of all sizes started to boogie out of there. Do you really believe that it was highly probable that a drunk skipper was concerned that the weight on the boat was evenly distributed? And does it matter when the water is anything but stable?

In addition to that, the Mac owners manual states that with an empty ballast, there should not be anyone on deck.

It really is not difficult to picture why that boat flipped.

For thirty-seven years we have been going to Lake George (The north end of L. George empties into L. Champlain). During the summer, every Thursday in Lake George Village, there is an evening fireworks display. I keep wanting to motor my to the event, but change my mind I when remember what it looks like when the show comes to an end. It looks like fish in the water shooting off in all directions when a predator appears. I don't want to be on the water during those moments. A smart man knows how to get out of situations that a wise man would not get into in the first place.

Ray

Keep trying, the MAC may have been overloaded - but they sat there with 11 people on board all moving about with no problems at all - the boat should have tipped over long before it motored away. Witnesses said as the boat moved off all the people were still and not moving - the boat just TIPPED OVER!

There were no wakes or waves per the witness statements - that also is NOT IT.

Starscream wrote:http://caselaw.findlaw.com/vt-supreme-c ... 80797.html

Interesting reading about the captain's appeal of his conviction. He claimed that the M model was introduced because of the inherent instability of the X. The addition of the permanent ballast in the M was claimed to be proof that the manufacturer knew the X boat was unstable.

According to that argument all of us X'ers should be long gone.

What IS the reason the boat tipped over? Your right that 300 pounds is not going to compensate for 11 people, but why did it not tip over during the hours they were watching the show??

Your guess MIGHT be plausible - that 300 pounds of ballast MIGHT have prevented the capsize - so, is that it? Seems thin to me - I can see why the driver was grasping at that straw - it was the only thing that could be concocted given the eyewitness testimony - what really happened? Why did it tip over? Even the court said it was not pilot error.

This one has me stumped

BOAT said:

Keep trying, the MAC may have been overloaded - but they sat there with 11 people on board all moving about with no problems at all - the boat should have tipped over long before it motored away

BOAT, totally illogical. They were tied up to another boat.

Why is it so hard to believe that by violating all of what we are told not to do, a Mac. can flip?

With that many souls on deck and no ballast, a simple turn under moderate power could capsize it.

What IS the reason the boat tipped over?

Crew member "Hey look over there...."

rest of crew mover over to that side to look then .. OH! Bugger

I don't see why this is so hard to believe, 11 people that's like 700KG 2 metres above the water the ballast would not have stopped it flipping only made it self righting after it flipped. The question is not why it didn't flip earlier the question is by what miracle did it stay upright for so long.

And with a drunk captain at the wheel who knows what might have happened

If you look at the factory X video on Youtube, Roger stands on the gunnel and grabs the shrouds and leans hard out, the boat hardly moves.

The claim is that the X didnt have ballast in when the video was shot

sailboatmike wrote:If you look at the factory X video on Youtube, Roger stands on the gunnel and grabs the shrouds and leans hard out, the boat hardly moves.

The claim is that the X didnt have ballast in when the video was shot

Rodger that, the is safe with one skinny old man hanging off the side