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I am alarmed though, at the idea of raising a rudder, but even more of raising one part-way.
IMHO, fiddling with the rudders is a bad plan during a high wind tack.
But moreso, partially deploying or retracting a rudder is a good way to suddenly find yourself having one more rudder bracket than you have rudders for.

Sorry, was not implying I would try to partially raise the weather rudder, just that the heel of the boat would automatically pull it out of the water somewhat and change the angle with which both rudders would be in relation to the vertical position thereby reducing the overall effectiveness of both rudders in turning the boat. Hope that makes it a little clearer.

To me, it seems that you just were not having enough forward momentum to successfully get you through the tack. From what you are describing, you did everything right. Use the iron genny, and keep going.

Ray

I have an X so this might not apply to your M but I have found that if the main sail is close hauled it drastically slows down my tacks.
When I know tacking is going to be iffy I start the turn, release the main and then play with the genoa to pull the bow around.
Once I am around and starting to pickup speed is when I start trimming the main. I need to have forward momentum before trimming the main or else the boat will try to go into irons.

Could just be the way my particular boat is setup (weight distribution, mast rake etc) but it works very well for me.

When the wind is kicking up steep waves that travel in the same direction as the wind, it can help to try to time the tack to the wave spacing. What sometimes happens when the boat speed is low when a tack is started, is that the steep wave faces can break the momentum of the tack, and knock you back on to your original course or stick you in irons. It depends on the wave spacing of course. I have had situations where timing the waves was critical to making a successful tack...sometimes it takes three or four missed tries to get the wave timing and figure out when to start the turn so that a wave doesn't hit just before going through the wind, but just after.

NiceAft wrote:To me, it seems that you just were not having enough forward momentum to successfully get you through the tack. From what you are describing, you did everything right. Use the iron genny, and keep going.

Ray

Ray ,
Did U forget to mention that if plan "A" or "B" fails then u have to resort to plan "C" !!!

J

Hmmmm. I was out today in fairly breezy weather as defined by a double reefed main and smaller working jib. 25 degree heel. Dogs giving me the evil eye. Boat would tack with half board down but just barely. I wanted a bit more main reefed. Like another two feet. Making good way to weather. Helm was light and i do like my new 4 part mainsheet.
The m is not going to sail that great in strong winds with the stock sails nor will it handle well with the roller Genoa. That baggey and poorly setting while partially rolled in sail just acts like a big airbrake. You need a main with two or even three reef points and a clean good setting hank on jib the right size if you want the M model to deal well with breezy conditions. The sails really really count on this boat. They have to be good quality and set correctly. Too much main up, the upper part, probably slack in those conditions, acts like a brake when you try to tack. Its not providing any power, just drag. On top of all that the factory M is light on ballast. I put 250 pounds of lead in mine. That helps in windy weather. Plus i have some heavy ground tackle forward.
So basically there will come a time when the stock rig isnt going to go about. Use the motor then get better sails. If theres alot of wind where you are pitch that roller furling gear and get a couple hank on jibs. Buy a cruising main from judy if money allows. The boat will sail a lot better. We were going like a scalded cat today.
Ix

darrenj wrote: When I know tacking is going to be iffy I start the turn, release the main and then play with the genoa to pull the bow around.

Gonna try that.

If spring ever returns.

If there's a lot of wind where you are pitch that roller furling gear and get a couple hank on jibs.

I haven't used my Genoa in about 10 years because when you have to reef aggressively, I found it was too baggy. Could have just been the state of my sail; it was used and about 5-8 years old at the time, but I have had good luck with a roller furled working jib. Keeps it's shape when roller furling much better than the Genoa. Since there are so many times when being able to roller furl even a working jib is desirable, I would try that before I went to a hank on. I can imagine too many situations where that would be cumbersome, and without a good crew to go up and take it down, you might find yourself with too much sail up.

Herschel, I use a line attached from the top of the working jib to a block by the tack and run back to the cockpit to douse my jib. I makes it a one-man job to lower the jib in under 5 seconds.

Highlander wrote:

NiceAft wrote:To me, it seems that you just were not having enough forward momentum to successfully get you through the tack. From what you are describing, you did everything right. Use the iron genny, and keep going.

Ray

Ray ,
Did U forget to mention that if plan "A" or "B" fails then u have to resort to plan "C" !!!

J

What's that, break out the Viking long oars

I have a genoa so I furl it in some before the tack so that it will quickly pass from one side to the other, without catching on the mast, but still back-wind it at first, to get the bow to quickly come about.

Release the main and hard over on the tiller at the same time but don't release the foresail. Once the bow comes around then release the foresail to the other side and set the main and off you go on a new tack.

I've found that my auto tillerpilot won't usually put the tiller over far enough even though it has a tack feature. If I'm using it at the time, I push the buttons to put it in standby and take the one end off the tiller. Then do as above. Then set the one end of the tillerpilot back on the tiller and push the resume buttons,

Sumner

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NiceAft wrote:

Highlander wrote:

NiceAft wrote:To me, it seems that you just were not having enough forward momentum to successfully get you through the tack. From what you are describing, you did everything right. Use the iron genny, and keep going.

Ray

Ray ,
Did U forget to mention that if plan "A" or "B" fails then u have to resort to plan "C" !!!

J

What's that, break out the Viking long oars

Nope open a can of H<B<B
J

The problem isn't lack of wind John.

Ray

Y.B.Normal wrote:Herschel, I use a line attached from the top of the working jib to a block by the tack and run back to the cockpit to douse my jib. I makes it a one-man job to lower the jib in under 5 seconds.

That is ingenious. Neat, but don't you ever wish you could partially reef/furl the jib? I find that I often take advantage of the roller furling to partially reef, either for my own comfort or that of a guest. I will concede that not having the jib wrapped around the forestay all the time (I keep my 26X in a slip year round) would be handy during hurricane threats, and I wouldn't have to have a Sunbrella strip along the leach and foot redone every few years. But, all things considered, I'll stick with the roller furling.

Y.B.Normal wrote:Herschel, I use a line attached from the top of the working jib to a block by the tack and run back to the cockpit to douse my jib. I makes it a one-man job to lower the jib in under 5 seconds.

In my salad days, my first boat did not have a furler. I really needed to get the sails down fast, as I did a lot of sailing right up to docks/moorings (comes from having a sketchy outboard).

I made a Gerr Downhaul. https://www.google.ca/search?q=gerr+dow ... 00&bih=759.

And, of course, a pretty picture to go with it:


It ultimately was not effective though. The downhaul line would pull the head down first, then try to bunch up from the clew to the tack. The line, rapped around the ball, while being hardened would rapidly wear holes in the sail.