MacGregorSailors.com

Yes Tom, you got it - this is the kind of data we need.

As soon as I get a wind instrument I will get more of these kinds of plots and maybe with enough data we can come up with a general rule for the boats. It will probably not be the same for the M as it is for X.

I calc your angle at 52. If the wind is strong (you have good accelerating velocity) I think SHORTER tacks would be better for that leg. I know it's a lot more work but if your velocity holds up it can shorten the distance traveled quite a bit.

I do not have the velocity increase constant for the X boat - I'm assuming the same VIC for the X as the M so you would be better with more turns. If the centerboard on the X is not turning as well as the M dagger-board then I can't say that -

Does anyone have any numbers on their M boat ?

Try moving ur Genny out 3ft on a bowsprit & see how much higher u can point providing u r heavily loaded like my boat is

Just Sayin thats All

J

Your pointing a lot higher John because your going a lot faster too. You sort of create your own wind with that Flying Dutchman rig of yours - None of us can catch that much wind.

I would assume your doing 5 knots in the same wind we do 3.5 knots. That's why velocity is a big deal - speed creates it own wind, which creates more speed. The Highlander boat is always catching more of the wind than the stock rig.

In fact - I bet the M boat would go faster with two working jibs than with one big genoa, (and point better too), even without the bowsprit and taller mast. With the sprit it's even better. Most of us just are not willing to deal with so many sails because of the trailer situation.

Sorry Highlander, but your one of a kind - your calculations don't count on this one.

BOAT wrote:I calc your angle at 52.

I eyeball estimated closer to 60. You can see the last little bit of close together tick marks, where I was motor-sailing just off the wind enough to keep the main sail full. After that, I was only firing up the computer every so often.

But with the old (original, I'm sure) main and jib (or genoa; I can't remember now), I'm not expecting much. And apparently, not getting it, either.

Time for some new sails, I think.



Some of those goofy long straight lines are from the software (Offshore Navigator) running a straight line between sessions, as when the computer isn't running, it only knows where it is when it's fired back up, even if that means it thinks I flew or trailered it over land.

Yellow boxes are turns. Didn't quite go as planned.

Get one of JudyBs jibs for that cruising, Boat, that's the best foresail for pointing

Catigale wrote:Get one of JudyBs jibs for that cruising, Boat, that's the best foresail for pointing

She uses a stiffer cloth - they do point better. One thing that would help a lot is a traveler because it allows you to pivot the boat around the sail. Wait, WHAT - this is getting off track.

Hey guys, it's not the sails or the pointing I'm worried about - it's just the numbers. I am calculating numbers based on real world. That's all. Skippers have been doing this since way back in the days of square riggers that could not point better than 85 degrees yet they made headway - it's just a matter of accepting reality and using it. There are a lot of guys out there cruising old wooden boats that can't point for crap and they are doing just fine.

So any other M boats out there? How do you point? Are we going to settle on 45 degrees here?

Error on the side of caution? @ 47.5

BOAT wrote:

RussMT wrote:http://www.flyorsail.com/Wind_Instruments.html

So russ, tell me, how high would you say your M boat points?

Compared to my displacement keel boat, the Mac points like crap. Also, I have been flying the genny so that doesn't help. Much depends on the speed of the wind. Light winds the boat sails the worst. High winds it seems to do best. I also discovered my board stop knot is about 10" too high. I'm going to move it so the board can be lowered fully. That might help.

This might solve your electronic wind direction needs.
http://www.boatersland.com/tatt221.html ... AuGK8P8HAQ

--Russ

If your using the furler check for forestay tension, boats will never point with a sloppy forestay, I find that somewhat of an issue with the CDI furler, its very hard to get reasonable tension.

RussMT wrote:

BOAT wrote:

RussMT wrote:http://www.flyorsail.com/Wind_Instruments.html

So russ, tell me, how high would you say your M boat points?

Compared to my displacement keel boat, the Mac points like crap. Also, I have been flying the genny so that doesn't help. Much depends on the speed of the wind. Light winds the boat sails the worst. High winds it seems to do best. I also discovered my board stop knot is about 10" too high. I'm going to move it so the board can be lowered fully. That might help.

This might solve your electronic wind direction needs.
http://www.boatersland.com/tatt221.html ... AuGK8P8HAQ

--Russ

Yup Russ we are on the same page - I got squawk about a year ago that Ray Marine was gonna buy TicTac and I was familiar with the TicTac wireless as systems for race boats, but I could not justify the price of an entire system. After I saw the RayMarine name on the TicTac devices I put in the RayMarine wireless network on 'boat' and I use it to control the AP from my pocket. I am still waiting for confirmation from RayMarine that the TicTac is now compatible with the RayMarine WiFi network. I contacted TicTac and they were not sure it was with the current device but assured me it would be compatible in future devices and that I needed to wait for RayMarine to announce it.

Still Waiting!!

BUT ANYWAYS!!!! This is not about wind instruments! (Arrgh! )

How do you point folks? What is your boat point off the wind? 45 degrees? 50? 60? It does not matter what the number is as long as it's the real number - I can work with any number. I want to create a tack plan for the M hull model.

You don't think we are just going to let you walk out of this thread, do you?

(said in his best Harry Callahan voice)

If it's just a matter of having more wind, keep this on board

Ray

I read the words but what in the furling hull are y'all jivin' about?!!
My brain is full, can I go now?!

K9Kampers wrote:I read the words but what in the furling hull are y'all jivin' about?!!
My brain is full, can I go now?!

BOAT is trying to find out (a) if anyone has found a good wind instrument for his that can accurately tell the wind direction because an rotating mast makes it difficult to do so. Also he is trying to figure out (b) how close to the wind is the most efficient course because he wants to reduce the time it takes to get from point A to point B when that distance is two hundred miles.

Sailing 30 degrees off direct wind is desirable. 0 is best, but impossible.


It may be time to remember that sailing is a Zen thing; it's the journey, not the destination which matters, most times

Ray

NiceAft wrote:It may be time to remember that sailing is a Zen thing; it's the journey, not the destination which matters, most times

Explain that to my admiral. "How much longer before we're there?" To quote Jack Nicholson, in 'Goin' South', "I could do this all day long. I mean, aaaall day long."