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This was posted on the Mac26 facebook page

J.A. wrote:How many of you have the Kenyon Butane stove in your galley? I have one (the single burner KISS model) and it darn near cost me my boat this morning. We camped on the boat last night and my buddy was docked next to us in his M. I started a pot of coffee on the stove and then the butane canister was empty so I had to change it---no leaks at this point and no previous problems. I changed the canister with a new one and I heard a hissing noise. I removed the canister and vented the boat. When the air was clear I put the new canister back in and seated it per the instructions. I didn't hear the hissing so I pressed the ignitor. The burner started, but I also had orange flames coming up from under the whole stove. I sent the kids out through the fore hatch and then I emptied my fire extinguisher on it and put the fire out. The only damage, thank God, was the wiring to the stove was melted. The boat is a MESS with the fire extinguisher powder everywhere. I got my tools and took the stove out of the galley. Took the stove outside and again seated the canister properly. It seems I have a failed internal seal and the stove is unsafe. I checked online and apparently this problem is fairly common. There are several threads listing similar near disasters. One thread on a Sea Ray owners site and one on a Hunter sailboat owner site.

Just on a final note, butane stoves were banned from sale here in Australia for around 6 months as they had caused many explosions and injuries, it was found that the designs didnt meet the basic safety requirements.

The stoves safety systems had to be redesigned to reduce the chance of explosion /gas leak, they have just gone back on sale with the new design around 8 weeks ago.

I have used a butane stove many many times with only one issues, basically the same as mentioned above, small leak from the seal when putting a new canister in caused a huge flare up, VERY quick action managed to stop any explosion and I had followed the instructions and was using it outside or else neither myself or my boat may be here to tell the story

I was very lucky, needless to say the Orego stove is all we use now in the boat, it may be 30 seconds slower making a coffee but I know I will be alive when the kettle boils

Can't believe that people are complaining that the Orego alcohol stoves are "too slow". If there's plenty of alcohol in the can, mine is fast
--blue-hull fast, one might say.

True, we have the small italian expresso coffee maker, but even so...

As for boiling the kettle or the soup, or even making quick rice for two people, no problem, really...

I also can't see why they should be hazardous, unless the stainless steel cans are leaking, or I liberally slop alcohol around them which I don't do... a funnel cut out of a plastic water container always does the job right, end everything is carefully swiped with paper towels... a gas canister seems way more prone to leaking and serious problems

I

I think I was the one who mentioned that it seemed slower then the butane. Hither too, I've had an origo for years. Never had the slightest issue with it. When I bought my Mac I no longer had the stove since it went with the last boat. I had used a casset type one burner butane once or twice before so I bought one of those for the new boat. Mindful of the warning to not use it inside I thought was due to the exhaust not the flare ups. I find myself reconsidering.
Ix

Two percent of fires were caused by stoves, more than half resulting from problems with lighting alcohol stoves.

So half of 2% of fires...(their other article says 1%) and it looks like maybe only 2 total stove fires reported, I can live with that

On the flip side I took a quick look and saw 43% of all home fires are cooking related, so alcohol stoves are over 40x safer than your home stove


IMO the non pressurized alcohol stoves are the as safe as you can get, mess that up and you are eligible for Darwin award. On That note.... We have a non gimmballed flushmount alcohol on our X and almost set the boat on fire...twice before learning not to use it when on a constant heel. The flame is a few inches below cooker surface and normally comes straight up through a "chimney". When angled it heats the side of the chimney instead of going straight up and heats the entire stove box. Ours got so hot it started burning the counter before we smelled the smoke and put it out.

Seapup - agree, non-pressurized alcohol is as simple as you can get. Looks to me like the numbers might be based on pressurized alcohol stoves, and are still small as you point out. As they say, tell me what answer you would like so I can give you a study that supports it.

Really appreciate you posting your experience with the non-gimballed stove. I'm still in the planning stage of my galley mod and was wondering if the extra trouble of building in a gimbal mount was worth it. Based on your experience, if I want to cook underway, looks like YES. Thanks.

sailboatmike wrote:I have used a butane stove many many times with only one issues, basically the same as mentioned above, small leak from the seal when putting a new canister in caused a huge flare up, VERY quick action managed to stop any explosion and I had followed the instructions and was using it outside or else neither myself or my boat may be here to tell the story

I had to order a replacement check valve from Kenyon last year as I broke the old one removing the vent hose when doing some work under the galley. The person who took the order told me that Kenyon had sent out a notice (that I never saw) that you should put a drop of motor oil on new canisters when you install them in the stove to help keep the seals from drying out. The oil will get distributed by the rush of butane into the system.

CFCassidy wrote:

sailboatmike wrote:I have used a butane stove many many times with only one issues, basically the same as mentioned above, small leak from the seal when putting a new canister in caused a huge flare up, VERY quick action managed to stop any explosion and I had followed the instructions and was using it outside or else neither myself or my boat may be here to tell the story

I had to order a replacement check valve from Kenyon last year as I broke the old one removing the vent hose when doing some work under the galley. The person who took the order told me that Kenyon had sent out a notice (that I never saw) that you should put a drop of motor oil on new canisters when you install them in the stove to help keep the seals from drying out. The oil will get distributed by the rush of butane into the system.

Probably a good idea for all butane stoves. I wonder if a shot of WD40 (in my tool kit) would work.


--Russ

We use a standard Coleman 2-burner camp stove that uses the 1-pound green cans, works great and never had any issues.

We have a dodger, so we always cook with the hatch open to get lots of airflow.

Our stove is not gimballed as we do not usually cook underway, but we have managed to cook breakfast eggs underway in smooth-ish swells - you just need to hang onto the pan (human gimbal)

The green propane cans also double on our Coleman catalytic heater in the cockpit.

I know propane is heavier that air and falls to the floor, but I'm told that there is not enough fuel in the 1- pound green propane cylinders to do damage due to unintended release into the cabin, not sure how much damage it would do it a full one exploded somehow.

We have two 9-gallon fuel tanks in the cockpit intentional so there is room to store other fuels there, like; 1-pound green propane cans, butane cans, engine oils, etc. Sometimes it worries me about sitting on so much fuel in the cockpit, even though we don't smoke

The simplest way we've found to cook aboard is with a magnetic induction cooktop (like the NuWave). We use it with our EU2000 and it works well. It's far safer than any of the flame/fuel alternatives, works well, and we don't have to carry a 2nd fuel type. We have a single big pot we use for everything and a kettle for coffee and tea. Does the job, much faster than the alcohol stove, and is safe as houses since the generator exhaust is outside.

Ideally you could run it off the batteries with a pure-sine-wave inverter, but they don't work at all off of the cheap modified sine-wave (i.e., square-wave) inverters. They just don't heat up at all. Probably the cheapest inverter that could drive them is a $400 1600 watt PSW inverter, so it gets pretty expensive if you don't already have a generator or a PSW. If you do, then they're great.

Matt

The number of people who throw. A plastic bottle of stove fuel in their bilge because it's " safe" amazes me.

It isn't. It's fuel.

We use disposable propane, stored upstairs, and only used downstairs under direct supervision. When the burner is turned off, the cylinder is returned to the locker by the stove user.

We never refill them

We only use new cylinders on a season. The left over is burned in the home grill

RussMT wrote: Probably a good idea for all butane stoves. I wonder if a shot of WD40 (in my tool kit) would work.
--Russ

WD40 is a solvent, not a lubricant despite what most people think. I don't think it is a good idea for this.

Charlie

CFCassidy wrote:

RussMT wrote: Probably a good idea for all butane stoves. I wonder if a shot of WD40 (in my tool kit) would work.
--Russ

WD40 is a solvent, not a lubricant despite what most people think. I don't think it is a good idea for this.

Charlie

Thanks for that clarification before I messed things up.

--Russ

All very entertaining . . I remember back in the early seventies on my dad's boat he had a bar-b-q that he could hang off the transom. He made it himself - it was the same little 24 by 12 by 12 metal box bar-b-q that he used in the family travel trailer. He put charcoal in it and lit it with charcoal lighter fluid and a match. He also put wet wood chips on the charcoal to make wood smoke - man the steaks that came off that little bar-b-q were amazing. We also had the "pump up and pre heat" alcohol stove down in the galley that my mom hated. You pump, pump, pump, then bleed a little fuel around the burner and light it to heat up the burner and then after that was hot you could light the burner. Man, that a hassle. If you did have propane back then it was the LAW that the tank was on deck - (very ugly thing to see on deck).

Really, the issue of fumes in the bilge is a really big deal - it you use a heavier than air fuel make sure you have one of those detectors down near the floor - I have one in my camper van (the one that tows 'boat') - if there is any propane lurking on the floor that alarm will tell you long before you can smell it and most important long before it can explode.

In boat - I will only use alcohol or electric. I have been considering having two stoves; adding an electric stove in 'boat' for a long time, but I thought this was only going to be on shore power - until mastreb's post I never thought I could use it without shore power. Now I have more to think about.

If you use propane - you really need a sensor - in the RV world it's the law.

RussMT wrote:This was posted on the Mac26 facebook page

J.A. wrote:How many of you have the Kenyon Butane stove in your galley? I have one (the single burner KISS model) and it darn near cost me my boat this morning. We camped on the boat last night and my buddy was docked next to us in his M. I started a pot of coffee on the stove and then the butane canister was empty so I had to change it---no leaks at this point and no previous problems. I changed the canister with a new one and I heard a hissing noise. I removed the canister and vented the boat. When the air was clear I put the new canister back in and seated it per the instructions. I didn't hear the hissing so I pressed the ignitor. The burner started, but I also had orange flames coming up from under the whole stove. I sent the kids out through the fore hatch and then I emptied my fire extinguisher on it and put the fire out. The only damage, thank God, was the wiring to the stove was melted. The boat is a MESS with the fire extinguisher powder everywhere. I got my tools and took the stove out of the galley. Took the stove outside and again seated the canister properly. It seems I have a failed internal seal and the stove is unsafe. I checked online and apparently this problem is fairly common. There are several threads listing similar near disasters. One thread on a Sea Ray owners site and one on a Hunter sailboat owner site.

The Kenyon stoves as I understand are the same as the ones available at the Asian grocery stores - just twice as expensive. If so, what wiring to the stove was melted - these are stand alone?