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I once dumped my X boat so far that I got the main sail wet. I happened to look down into the cabin at the time and could see the fish swimming by in the windows (Well... I did get the windows wet).

I've had a couple times in my D boat where I was struck by a wind shear, coming off some mountains around the lake (sailing close to 500 foot cliffs can be a real learning experience ). This will push the boat over on her side in the blink of an eye. Then sometimes, she'll spin around and do it all over again.
So, after dipping the spreaders on both boats, once or twice, you really come to trust the fact that they do stand back up, at some point. Funny, I don't remember getting wet in any of these incidents......... except maybe a little spray in the face.
Then there was the time my rudder broke off in a fresh breezes. Try figuring out how to de-power the sails and get them down with no steering and single handing, no halyards to the cockpit or anything....... there were a few tense moments, particularly when trying to make it to the foredeck to douse the jib, before the boat spun around, yet again

Funny too, that I do get a little nervous about heeling a lot, still, in one situation. That is when the Admiral is on board. She's gotten used to sailing and even enjoys it now, and I don't want to change that by scaring the crap out of her. She has gotten to the point though, that she will tell me to let the boat run and quit worrying about it. She prefers some excitement rather than boring. I like to give her the tiller too. This really helps someone understand the boat and controlling it........ great way to give them confidence in what the boat can do. I also found that she's a natural, for reading the wind and how to get boat speed.

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

Steve K wrote:I Funny, I don't remember getting wet in any of these incidents......... except maybe a little spray in the face.

If it had been me, I would have been more concerned about the spray in the pants!!!

I'm wanting to know why Gazman's been hiding the Babes so long Ron.

taime1 wrote:

Steve K wrote:I Funny, I don't remember getting wet in any of these incidents......... except maybe a little spray in the face.

If it had been me, I would have been more concerned about the spray in the pants!!!

Well........... never happened yet, but I am getting older. (61.5)



Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D

I too got the windows and rail submerged once when I first started sailing the M. My admiral thought it was fantastic and is a bit annoyed that I now limit heel to 20 degrees for performance reasons, knowing more about sailing these boats now than I did then.

Like you, I learned sailing with my Mac having come from a powerboat world. That first season, I used to release the sheets as soon as I had 10 degree heel. (quit laughing folks...) The Second summer, I had a great day sailing with passengers then went for a solo sail. A freakish wind storm blew in. I sailed it reefed and foresail 75% furled in sustained 25mph with 30 mph gusts on a reach. It gave me supreme confidence. Now, even my wife says we aren't sailing if her fingers can't touch the water! Learn the boat and push it a bit more each time. Before you know it, people will see you heeled over and think you're an old salt!

The X is less tender than the M so trust her, she's a good sturdy boat!

Anchors. I drug with my Danforth in currents and varied bottoms until I added 34' of chain and ensure I have a decent amount of rode out. I just used my brand new manson supreme with the 34' chain for the first time in sand and it worked phenomenally!!!

Here is what it looked like at low tide after 20 hours. We had a constant 15mph head wind gusting to 20mph. The tidal currents hit us perpendicular to the boat. You can see how the manson dug in until inertia overcame mother nature and the sand shows the fan pattern in the sand as the boat pulled changing angles due to the tide. Of course the depth was only 2' to 6' deep and I had nearly 30' of chain out. It retrieved very very easily.

This is what the manson looks like when not buried...


Many thanks for your service, from a fellow vet.
Happy Sailing!
Doug & Angie

mastreb wrote:I too got the windows and rail submerged once when I first started sailing the M. My admiral thought it was fantastic and is a bit annoyed that I now limit heel to 20 degrees for performance reasons, knowing more about sailing these boats now than I did then.

Hi Matt,

You're right about keeping the heel down to 20 to 25 for best performance. Anything over that and you're just overpowering the boat. You won't go any faster and may find if you reef, you may even do better (saying this not for you but mostly for newer sailors)
However, particularly with the X boat, as you likely know, sailing flat is sailing slow. You gotta get some of that big ole square backend out of the water to get an X to get going.

As far as laying them down though, you don't have to be new at it for it to happen. Sometimes old Ma nature will pull a fast one on you, just to get a chuckle . Then there's operator error......... one time I dumped my D simply because I forgot to re-tighten the tiller tamer before going forward. This wouldn't be a problem in a fresh breeze, as my boat, when in the groove sails unattended very well. But when it's blowing over thirty it's a different story, particularly in chop.
Betcha I don't make that mistake again

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

Doug said

Before you know it, people will see you heeled over and think you're an old salt!

NOT POWER BOATERS

When you are in a heel in excess of 40 degrees, their looks at you are more like one's of horror
"OMG, that poor fool is about to flip over "

Ray

Ha ha! So true! We were derigging in the parking lot after a particularly fun day when a power boater brought his young daughter over because she was so worried we were going to fall over and she didn't believe him that we were having the time of our lives!

When I see a heel of 40 degrees - I think you're either losing control or you don't know that after 20 degrees, you're losing effectiveness.

mastreb wrote:One thing you might want to try as a confidence builder is to pull the boat over by the main halyard. Firmly cleat off the halyard to the mast, and take the halyard loose end with you to the dock. At the dock, use your longest dock lines to loosely re-cleat the bow and stern docklines so that the boat can move freely a few feet. Now walk back away from the boat with the loose end of the halyard such that it pulls the boat over from the top of the mast. .

It sounds like a good idea although many would be concerned about the stress being placed on the mast and fittings using the main halyard as the block is located at the top of the mast. The manual warns about this and suggests using the lower jib halyard when attempting to careen the boat.

dlandersson wrote:When I see a heel of 40 degrees - I think you're either losing control or you don't know that after 20 degrees, you're losing effectiveness.

Not true at all. It is very effective in giving the ride of your lives.

I often tell power boater's that I can give them more thrills at three MPH than they can get at fifty in their boats.

If you have no where to go, and all the time in the world to get there, git'r up on edge and have fun.

Ray

Cedarsailor wrote:

mastreb wrote:One thing you might want to try as a confidence builder is to pull the boat over by the main halyard. Firmly cleat off the halyard to the mast, and take the halyard loose end with you to the dock. At the dock, use your longest dock lines to loosely re-cleat the bow and stern docklines so that the boat can move freely a few feet. Now walk back away from the boat with the loose end of the halyard such that it pulls the boat over from the top of the mast. .

It sounds like a good idea although many would be concerned about the stress being placed on the mast and fittings using the main halyard as the block is located at the top of the mast. The manual warns about this and suggests using the lower jib halyard when attempting to careen the boat.

Agree. Nice that you picked up on that detail, Cedarsailor .

While I don't think Matt intended that the boat be pulled over that far, the jib halyard attaches at a point on the mast that is supported by the stays, and so it will more readily withstand the point loading generated by doing that.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, using the main halyard instead carries the risk of breaking the mast.

- B.

I always careen by the jib halyard or a rope around the mast at the spreaders.
https://app.box.com/s/o7hw86isxed3a9lxhinh

Then again, sometimes I just turn them up-side-down
https://app.box.com/s/fsxkwns6xkam8vnvnz8q

No stripper or sanding dust in the face that way

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

dlandersson wrote:When I see a heel of 40 degrees - I think you're either losing control or you don't know that after 20 degrees, you're losing effectiveness.

If we are racing or actually trying to get somewhere, then of course we'll let the traveler go, adjust sails and try to maintain about a 15 degree heel. My wife and I enjoy and prefer the thrill of a good 25 to 40 degree lean since we generally have no place to go! There are times I'll center the traveler and pull the sheets tight just to enjoy the sensation. Ray's right, you can have a lot of thrill at 3mph without guzzling gallons of fuel at 50 mph.
Doug