Mast-reb-uild

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

Thanks Brian! Most if not all of my holes are at the end, so I'm going to go with the epoxy boss method.

I'm using these two tangs to create the gooseneck bracket:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... ctId=92380

These tangs are extremely strong, about 3/32 thick 316 stainless. I'm having to use a friend's sheet metal press to bend them.

The tangs will be bolted to the interior of the tube at holes 1 and 3 on both sides. They they'll be bent at 45 degrees at hole 4, and then bent to -45 degrees at the hole before the last hole. The final hole will be bolted to the Harken headboard car with six or so 316 washers between the tangs to gap them. Think of a mast hound, and you've got the idea. This gooseneck assembly will rotate vertically on the tang end, and horizontally on the harken car hinge.

With your epoxy boss idea, I'm going to bolt them to the interior of the CF tube, and then fill the bolted area with epoxy. Should be way over-built.

Here's a mockup, before the tangs are bent. There will be two bolts on each side in the tube.

Image
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seahouse
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by seahouse »

If you're going to fill the bolted area with epoxy anyway, essentially encasing the ends of the bolts in it, and I'm reading you correctly, that would make them inaccessible for future maintenance or inspection.

Might be good to just fill the end up with epoxy first, drill them as through-holes, and then through-bolt them with two longer, instead of four shorter bolts. The rock-solid chunk of epoxy would prevent the bolts from deforming the tube.

The logistics of filling the end of a 10-foot tube with epoxy would be the same in either case.

The tang link gave me an error message BTW.
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

Picked up the new mast today at the old factory in Costa Mesa using my Hobie as a trailer because the Mac is an hour away in the wrong direction:

Image

You can see that I've lost a gopher fight in my backyard. We'll be paving it over. I'm done with 12 years of battling them.

I'll start moving parts over to the new mast tomorrow. I also got the mainsail back with the harken Batt-Cars installed, which cost about $130 to have done at a local loft, Ullman Sails. Quite reasonable.

At the factory I was able to see a few interesting things:

1) The very last production MacGregor 26M, which Roger is keeping. It's a black hull.
2) The very last MacGregor 26M for sale, which is also a black hull but is a 26M used by the MacGregor family.
3) Three production Tattoos in white, navy blue, and black. One has been sold, two are available.

4) The first production MacGregor 70 hull being build. It's pretty awesome I have to say. The hull and deck are fully formed and faired, but it hasn't been painted. It's epoxy and glass, between 1/2" and 1" thick pretty much everywhere. There are carbon fiber frames where the keel bolts in, and the bulkheads are actually essentially frames so it looks like it will be a very stiff boat. The masts are carbon fiber; the mizen is light enough that you can lift it by hand.

It'll be a very impressive boat. It looks to be a bit beamier than the 65 was, but still very much a long and narrow boat. It's got a sugar scoop stern with steps moulded in going up to the deck. There's an aft cockpit and a good sized pilot house. Plenty of room inside.

Most of the 26M shop is now taken up by a sail loft, North Sails.
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RobertB
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by RobertB »

mastreb wrote:You can see that I've lost a gopher fight in my backyard. We'll be paving it over. I'm done with 12 years of battling them.
I am not sure this would work for gophers but I finally came up with an immediately effective way to deal with underground yellow jacket nests.
I prep by assembling a scrap board about a foot square with a small hole in the center (about 3/8 inch), a compressor with a blower nozzle, gasoline, and a match. In quick succession, I pour the gasoline down the hole, trying to get it in the hole and not around, light the gas, cover the hole with the board, and blow air thru the board. Makes a great flame thrower through all the underground passage. Immediate satisfaction - plus if the yellow jackets built their nest under a rotten tree stump (as in my case), the tree stump burns out from underground and all that is left the next day is a pile of ash in a hole. Tell me this is not worthy of the movie Caddyshack!

Curious about why the first Tattoo boats at the California facility - where were they built?
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EZ
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by EZ »

RobertB wrote:
Curious about why the first Tattoo boats at the California facility - where were they built?
Probably Florida. I think mike inmon is running the tattoo dealership out of the old Mac factory.
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

I'm guessing they aren't the first tattoos built, but Inmon, BWY, and Boats-4-sail almost certainly had priority.

Matt
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by Catigale »

Me: "Mast accidents are really very rare though."
Admiral: "Well you've had two in three years."
Me: let's watch Sharknado....
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

Okay so it's probably time for me to post an update on this project.

I've got the Harken Batt-car track installed. I bought five rails of the AA system and the track-insert bottom piece. I'm pretty sure I won't actually need the fifth rail, and four rails + the track insert bottom is a perfect size fit without having to cut. I'll update this when I know for sure, but that's been convenient.

Installation of the track WITH THE MAST OFF was a piece of cake. I just put the track slugs onto the rail, and then slid the entire rail onto the track from the open mast foot. That said, trying to install this rail without taking the mast off the boat would have been a PIA.

The cars run easily and securely on the track. I've got the mainsail remade with the batt-cars, so that's ready to go as well. I'm not happy with the quality of screws that Harken provided. Even with my small drill driver, many of them strip out immediately even with slip torque and low speed. Super soft cheap metal, although supposedly 316. What this means is that removing the track will be difficult. Otherwise everything in their kit worked well and it even came with the necessary loctite.

I have my carbon boom with it's gooseneck-on-on-batt-cars mostly built as well. I'll post pics of everything working tomorrow when I have it rigged. It's a 2" round carbon tube with a piece of the batt-car track for the outhaul car (replacing the slug in the boom track) to ride on. By using this batt-car track, one could use standard tube for all the spars on the boat without any issues.

I built the carbon-fiber spreaders today as well. That was also easy and they look great. I'd ordered simple carbon tubes with the same I.D. and O.D. as the original spreaders pre-cut to length, so they fit right into the sockets on the mast and the spreader tips fit into them. They're a bit lighter than the aluminum but probably 100X stronger, so they'll never deform. This does mean more force transmitted to the mast in an accident, but my experience in any kind of "event" so far is that the mast always bends anyway, so there's no point in also losing the spreaders or having them bend for some stupid reason while trailering. I drilled the necessary holes for bolting and everything worked just fine. The tubes are black and match the spreader tips perfectly. I'll also post photos of that tomorrow.

I'm meeting the rigger tomorrow to have the dyneema dux stays made. That'll probably take all day. I intend to spend the weekend sailing--we'll see how that works out.

Anyway, once I've got all these mods proven out I'll post results on what has worked and what hasn't.
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

I'm having a problem sourcing the same halyard cheek block in town (or anything similar, which I find odd) so I've decided to go to a pad eye instead with a shackle block. Anybody know of any issues with doing this? I'm planning on riveting the pad eye.
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by Catigale »

I've got a client who routinely fools with 200 foot sections of composite...I'll ask around the guys who think "excel" is when you are good at something....
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Highlander
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by Highlander »

the blocks r made by Garhauer for Macgregor , when I added & doubled up the foot cheek blocks in front of the jib track I doubled up the one on the S/B side & added two more doubled up on the port side
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010016.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0018-1.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0015-1.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0017-1.jpg

Hope this helps u out
J 8)
PS I had to get the blocks through my local dealer , but now that Macgregor is no longer making :macm: they Gar . maybe able to sell them to u direct unless Tattoo has p/u the contract right !
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

Well, problem #1 with the track has appeared: While trailering the mast for the first time, the admiral's tie down job at the mast roller allowed the mast to bounce off the roller and land on the arch, which scraped up the track. It doesn't look like it'll cause any problems, but the black anodizing has come off a small section which looks super obvious.

I'm going to have to make a custom mast roller that can accommodate the mast track. Now who was making one of those...

I went and met with the rigger today. He REALLY disliked the stock rigging, especially the way that sales at the factory rigged the forestay swage eye to the pin outside the shackle. I had to basically insist on keeping the stay adjusters and not going to turnbuckles.

We're going to go a little over-sized on the dyneema so we can safely use smaller thimbles. The "Colligo Marine" thimbles made for dyneema are quite large and would be difficult to work with on a Mac. So we'll be using typical closed teardrop thimbles will reduce the load rating, to be compensated for by going over size.

The rigger did warn me that Trailer-ables may have a special problem with dyneema: Because the rigging is not constantly under tension, it may tend to creep back, meaning that I will probably be looking at having to retension more often, which means I may wind up going to turnbuckles afterall. This is a problem Cheryl from BWY warned me about as well.

So we'll see. Might be a fool's errand.

Matt
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Steve K
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by Steve K »

For SoCal sailors:
Garhauer is right off the I-10 in Upland. Take the Mountain ave. exit, go north to Ninth and turn right. It's a compact industrial complex and Garhauer is at the rear of one of the buildings. They sell right there and will even do some custom work.
Best hardware ever and really very reasonable.
http://garhauermarine.com/

BB,
SK
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mastreb
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by mastreb »

Okay, the mast is finally rigged!

Here's the dyneema dux stays and the carbon spreaders:

Imageimage by matthew_strebe, on Flickr

This is the dux stays at the chainplates:

Imageimage by matthew_strebe, on Flickr

Here's detail of the mast track and gate:

Imageimage by matthew_strebe, on Flickr

We (the rigger and I) upgraded the forestay to 3/16ths because the side stays are now an additional 5000 lbs. breaking strength above stock and I wanted to ensure that the forestay would still be over the top of them in an accident (i.e. that the forestay still breaks last, not first). We swaged on a norseman swage-eye at the top rather than the factory loop. The rigger was not kind about the quality of the stock thimbled loops.

We went with 5mm dyneema vs. the "same strength" size which would have been 4mm so that I've got a extra UV penetration depth that can become UV corroded over time and still always remain above recommended breaking strength. These stays should have a lifetime of 20+ years and may last the life of the boat. They won't corrode or otherwise wear, and they lay like rope when the mast is down. Gone are the wire "hoops" when the mast is down (yay!)

Dyneema dux does have a creep issue which both JudyB and Cheryl from BWY pointed out to me. According to my rigger, he pretensioned the stays to 4000 lbs., which "sets" the weave and the splices. According to him I will only have creep problems if I coil the stays too tightly (tighter than a 2' spool) or bend the splices. If they creep, they will shorten, which will tension the rig a bit more, and if it becomes problematic I can re-set the stays them with my tow rig and a something fixed. They will not creep in such a way as to become looser under any circumstances, which is good. In any case, I will report on the performance of these dyneema dux stays over time.

The carbon spreaders are just stock tubes I ordered cut to length with matching inside and outside diameters as the aluminum tubes. Because they are the same size as the aluminum tubes, they're vastly stronger and will never bend. My experience with rig failures on these boats is that you actually want the mast to bend before anything else, because that way the rig remains under moderate tension. When spreaders bend, the rig flops around ominously and would be very unsafe in any kind of seas. Furthermore, under any kind of stress the mast is going to bend anyway, so it might as well be the only thing you need to replace.

Everything fit perfectly, and I just drilled holes for the spreader tips and the pins. The rigger opened up the spreader tips a bit and filed them rounded, and just used the stock ones with the dyneema.

Here's the parts we used:

Parts
110' 5mm Dux Dyneema @ $2.69. $295.00
8 thimbles. $68.00
4 1/4” Shackles. $64.00
30' 3/16” type 316 stainless steel 1 x 19 wire. $78.00
1 3/16” x 5/16” turnbuckle with swage stud. $42.00
1 3/16” x 5/16” Norseman eye. $41.50
Tef Gel, Sealant, rivets & Fasteners, tape, solvent, rags $65.00
Tax on Parts $52.28
Labor.
16 hours @ $65.00

The rigger didn't appreciate the fact that the factory did not isolate the aluminum mast from the stainless fittings, so he rebedded everything with Tef Gel and 4200 to isolate everything, so I shouldn't have the somewhat common failure of a mast breakage at the shroud hounds due to corrosion. Looking at the three years worth of corrosion on my old mast was worrisome.

Final build and test will likely be tomorrow when I hoist the sail and rig the new boom, which is also a stock carbon tube with a piece of mast track on it and a custom gooseneck I made which rides on a batt-car and will be down-tensioned with a vang.

Chris Chatterton of CC Rigging did the work; I wholeheartedly recommend him to anyone in the San Diego region who needs help with rigging. Very knowledgeable and had brings his whole shop with him in a Sprinter van. He did great work.

Matt
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Re: Mast-reb-uild

Post by Wayne nicol »

Hi Matt- looking very very pro!!
do tell a little bit more about the bedding he did at the contact points with the stainless- seems like something we should all do with our rigs!!
cheers
wayne
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