I have a touch screen marine GUI already on my Pocket PC.
I also use this software, Pocket Map Navigator, http://www.pocketmap.com/navigator.html , in the car. Full US maps with points of interest. shortest path routing nation wide, instant re-reroutes when you depart from the planned route. voice prompts for all turns as well as on screen. Really cool 3D look ahead viewpoint that makes following the map super easy.
All for a whooping $89.
I use my backup boat GPS, an Etrex in the car. Yet another reason to move to a internal GPS or bluetooth for the PPC. I could use it in both the boat and the car.
By the way the 480M actually is the part number for the 480x480 Lowrance monochrome unit with a sounder.
GPS navigation
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Moe,
You might want to look again at the 276. It's screen is a 4" diagonal while the 172/178 is 4.5" . Not much difference and the 276 is 480x320 vs the 172 at 320x320. The image will be clearer on the higher res screen. That's why I love my 4" diagonal PPC screen at 640x480, it's image is razor sharp. You can read things zoomed out much better. The 276 is also a much more compact box at the pedestal and is made for quick removal, not to mention being able to use it in your car is a big plus when you are spending that much money.
You're also quoting some highly discounted chart prices. I feel it's never right to quote anything other than list unless you also post the exact source of the discounted price and it is not a sale that expires as often these posts get re-read far after they are posted. List for a region is $149 and for the coverage I would need for Puget Sound and the inside passage Garmin wants a whooping $299. Truely a rip off. Then you need the programer cable at $75 and a overpriced proprietary card at $90 for 64 Mb. You can get a CF flash card that size for $20 these days.
You might want to look again at the 276. It's screen is a 4" diagonal while the 172/178 is 4.5" . Not much difference and the 276 is 480x320 vs the 172 at 320x320. The image will be clearer on the higher res screen. That's why I love my 4" diagonal PPC screen at 640x480, it's image is razor sharp. You can read things zoomed out much better. The 276 is also a much more compact box at the pedestal and is made for quick removal, not to mention being able to use it in your car is a big plus when you are spending that much money.
You're also quoting some highly discounted chart prices. I feel it's never right to quote anything other than list unless you also post the exact source of the discounted price and it is not a sale that expires as often these posts get re-read far after they are posted. List for a region is $149 and for the coverage I would need for Puget Sound and the inside passage Garmin wants a whooping $299. Truely a rip off. Then you need the programer cable at $75 and a overpriced proprietary card at $90 for 64 Mb. You can get a CF flash card that size for $20 these days.
Duane, I have looked closely at the 276, and talked a friend of mine who already had a fishfinder into buying one with the car kit. They're great if you want an automotive/marine GPS combo unit. The 178C is also great if you want a marine GPS/fishfinder combo unit.
According to Garmin, the 276C is 3.8" diagonal. The 480 X 320 screen is a 1.5:1 aspect ratio, putting the screen at roughly 3.15" wide by 2.1" tall = 3.8" diagonal or 6.615 square inches.
The 178 screen is spec'd at 3.2" by 3.2" for a 4.5" diagonal square or 10.24 square inches. 10.24/6.615 = 55% larger screen than the 276. The 276C screen is about as wide as the 178C, but the 178C screen is a bit over 50% taller, and that much greater in total screen area.
The 178C resolution is 100 dpi with a dot pitch of 0.25mm. This is the same as my 20" 4:3 monitor at work set on 1600 X 1200 resolution, and that's more than good enough for chart reading for me. The 276C resolution is indeed higher, at about 150 dpi and 0.17mm dot pitch. That's right up there with my 15.4" 16:10 notebook display on its native 1920 X 1200 resolution, which some might think overkill. I can see that being nice for viewing steet maps with lots of intersecting lines and street names, but I don't think it's necessary for viewing nautical charts. YMMV.
Garmin specs the 276C at 5.7"W X 3.2"H X 1.9"D and the 178C at 6.3"W X 4.9"H X 3.7" deep. That must include the tilt/swivel bracket since the unit is actually 2.5" deep without it. The major difference is in height, and that would be expected with a taller screen.
The 172/178 series are also very easily installed and removed. Twist the lock and pull out the cable, loosen the tilt adjust knob and lift the unit off. We take it with us when we dock the Whaler for lunch.
If you missed it, I quoted the exact source of the prices, GPSdiscount.com. I don't quote list prices because only a fool pays them, but using them does make Garmin pricing look worse. GPSdiscount.com, brokenlegdave.com, and boe.com have similar prices. I understand the proprietary Garmin cards are more expensive than compact flash, but feel it's worth it to use a Garmin unit.
--
Moe
According to Garmin, the 276C is 3.8" diagonal. The 480 X 320 screen is a 1.5:1 aspect ratio, putting the screen at roughly 3.15" wide by 2.1" tall = 3.8" diagonal or 6.615 square inches.
The 178 screen is spec'd at 3.2" by 3.2" for a 4.5" diagonal square or 10.24 square inches. 10.24/6.615 = 55% larger screen than the 276. The 276C screen is about as wide as the 178C, but the 178C screen is a bit over 50% taller, and that much greater in total screen area.
The 178C resolution is 100 dpi with a dot pitch of 0.25mm. This is the same as my 20" 4:3 monitor at work set on 1600 X 1200 resolution, and that's more than good enough for chart reading for me. The 276C resolution is indeed higher, at about 150 dpi and 0.17mm dot pitch. That's right up there with my 15.4" 16:10 notebook display on its native 1920 X 1200 resolution, which some might think overkill. I can see that being nice for viewing steet maps with lots of intersecting lines and street names, but I don't think it's necessary for viewing nautical charts. YMMV.
Garmin specs the 276C at 5.7"W X 3.2"H X 1.9"D and the 178C at 6.3"W X 4.9"H X 3.7" deep. That must include the tilt/swivel bracket since the unit is actually 2.5" deep without it. The major difference is in height, and that would be expected with a taller screen.
The 172/178 series are also very easily installed and removed. Twist the lock and pull out the cable, loosen the tilt adjust knob and lift the unit off. We take it with us when we dock the Whaler for lunch.
If you missed it, I quoted the exact source of the prices, GPSdiscount.com. I don't quote list prices because only a fool pays them, but using them does make Garmin pricing look worse. GPSdiscount.com, brokenlegdave.com, and boe.com have similar prices. I understand the proprietary Garmin cards are more expensive than compact flash, but feel it's worth it to use a Garmin unit.
--
Moe
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
You should see a chart on a hi res screen, it would change your mind. My new PPC is 4" at 640x480, you'll have to do the DPI math, and is amazing with a nautical chart. Next to my old one which was 3.5" at 320x240 it is a startling difference, and I think extremely useful. The higher DPI has a very practical use.
I can zoom out twice as far on the new screen and still clearly read the depth info and see all the contour lines. The screen actually is far busier on a chart than on a my street navigation app. I used to feel like I couldn't really see what was very far ahead if I also wanted to read the depths and other text. Now I can see a far bigger section of the chart without losing any readability. This is even enhanced further by the new memory map software. I can move the boat icon off center to near the side, bottom or top of the screen, anywhere I need depending on the direction of travel. Now the entire screen can show what is ahead rather than just half of it. Another nice feature of the new Windows Mobile 2003 SE operating system is the ability to switch from portrait to landscape at will. This works great in conjunction with the charting software.
I can zoom out twice as far on the new screen and still clearly read the depth info and see all the contour lines. The screen actually is far busier on a chart than on a my street navigation app. I used to feel like I couldn't really see what was very far ahead if I also wanted to read the depths and other text. Now I can see a far bigger section of the chart without losing any readability. This is even enhanced further by the new memory map software. I can move the boat icon off center to near the side, bottom or top of the screen, anywhere I need depending on the direction of travel. Now the entire screen can show what is ahead rather than just half of it. Another nice feature of the new Windows Mobile 2003 SE operating system is the ability to switch from portrait to landscape at will. This works great in conjunction with the charting software.
-
waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
Since I sail where charts are required. (it would be hard to say that I am familiar with the entire BC coast) and the mess with NDI at this time..
I love the idea for a chartplotter, but absolutely do not like anything I have seen that even thinks it can survive on the pedestal.... There are too many instruments and tools fighting for that important space.
Integrating a pc to deliver all the functions is nice in a larger yacht with an enclosed cockpit..... but they are sadly insufficient for the pedestal of a mac. Sealling, mounting, viewing, mechanical strength. etc... the products just are not up t that standard yet..... they are not even as good as the aircraft systems. Now..as an ME, EE, Pilot and mariner who works on networking instrumentation, controls as well as other systems... perhaps I am a bit demanding..
So alas, I still carry charts. and have been known to copy small sections of them to keep in a clear plastic mapcase....(how archaic) while transiting an area. I personally think the screen of a laptop is probably large enough, but a laptop willnot survive in the cockpit of my mac...not even a mil spec GObook, the hermetic sealing of any current device is insufficient. (except for maybe a submersible handheld radio) and ease of use just quite isnt up there if you are already comfortable with a compass and handheld gps.
So I wait.. 500.00 dollars buys a lot of charts and cruising guides......and still gives the big picture.... ever try to figure a bearing off the screen of a small handheld device with their limited resolution, and error prone nav entry menus...(not their errors,,,,my large fingers errors)
And so I carry multiple GPS.....(almost disposable....because if I ever step up into the liferaft.....I know there will be one on my vest, along with a vhf handheld...) and it is still easier to see the big pic with the paper chart....
I for one hope everyone continues to buy those neat chart plotters tha my friends work so hard to build, because soon, it will get past the novelty stage and truly be integrated, able to export and import all software and functions.... and only take up a 15" screens worth of space.....
And honestly.....as someone who has tried to and partially succeeded to type in the cockpit of the boat while underway....
can you really avert your eyes from what is happening around you that long while underway.....
Seems that it is a great tool for the admiral while underway, or the first mate..... and I highly recommend a pc inside the boat protected a bit....
But the mac cockpit is a tough location when the weather gets really foul... and that same money could be better spend on waterproof map holders that dont blow away...lol and dont destroy night vision, etc...
just my two cents from a singlehander that has dealt with too many electrical problems in many locations of the years..
WE have some similiar difficulties in aircraft cockpits (actually a mechanically friendler equipment location, but worse electronic location) and small boats and small aircraft are tough to play with the electronics when you are minding the vehicle.... a jeppson plate strapped to my knee is where I am going for a missed approach.....and if I need to run for cover in the mac.... I need all the information to decide where I am running for cover.....based on what I am experiencing, wind, current, time of day, traffic, forecasts, ship and mechanicals condition, etc. not the time for figuring out menu's and reloading data....
Oh well...
Hope I didnt put frank to sleep.......
I love the idea for a chartplotter, but absolutely do not like anything I have seen that even thinks it can survive on the pedestal.... There are too many instruments and tools fighting for that important space.
Integrating a pc to deliver all the functions is nice in a larger yacht with an enclosed cockpit..... but they are sadly insufficient for the pedestal of a mac. Sealling, mounting, viewing, mechanical strength. etc... the products just are not up t that standard yet..... they are not even as good as the aircraft systems. Now..as an ME, EE, Pilot and mariner who works on networking instrumentation, controls as well as other systems... perhaps I am a bit demanding..
So alas, I still carry charts. and have been known to copy small sections of them to keep in a clear plastic mapcase....(how archaic) while transiting an area. I personally think the screen of a laptop is probably large enough, but a laptop willnot survive in the cockpit of my mac...not even a mil spec GObook, the hermetic sealing of any current device is insufficient. (except for maybe a submersible handheld radio) and ease of use just quite isnt up there if you are already comfortable with a compass and handheld gps.
So I wait.. 500.00 dollars buys a lot of charts and cruising guides......and still gives the big picture.... ever try to figure a bearing off the screen of a small handheld device with their limited resolution, and error prone nav entry menus...(not their errors,,,,my large fingers errors)
And so I carry multiple GPS.....(almost disposable....because if I ever step up into the liferaft.....I know there will be one on my vest, along with a vhf handheld...) and it is still easier to see the big pic with the paper chart....
I for one hope everyone continues to buy those neat chart plotters tha my friends work so hard to build, because soon, it will get past the novelty stage and truly be integrated, able to export and import all software and functions.... and only take up a 15" screens worth of space.....
And honestly.....as someone who has tried to and partially succeeded to type in the cockpit of the boat while underway....
can you really avert your eyes from what is happening around you that long while underway.....
Seems that it is a great tool for the admiral while underway, or the first mate..... and I highly recommend a pc inside the boat protected a bit....
But the mac cockpit is a tough location when the weather gets really foul... and that same money could be better spend on waterproof map holders that dont blow away...lol and dont destroy night vision, etc...
just my two cents from a singlehander that has dealt with too many electrical problems in many locations of the years..
WE have some similiar difficulties in aircraft cockpits (actually a mechanically friendler equipment location, but worse electronic location) and small boats and small aircraft are tough to play with the electronics when you are minding the vehicle.... a jeppson plate strapped to my knee is where I am going for a missed approach.....and if I need to run for cover in the mac.... I need all the information to decide where I am running for cover.....based on what I am experiencing, wind, current, time of day, traffic, forecasts, ship and mechanicals condition, etc. not the time for figuring out menu's and reloading data....
Oh well...
Hope I didnt put frank to sleep.......
I have... remember I have BlueCharts on a digital 1080p HDTV grade notebookDuane Dunn, Allegro wrote:You should see a chart on a hi res screen, it would change your mind.
Also have Maptech and Fugawi on it.The 4:3 4" screen should be 3.2" by 2.4", a little better than the 276C but about 75% of the 178C. The DPI works out to 200, which has a critical viewing distance of 18" vs 24" for 150 dpi and 36" for 100 dpi. CVD is the maximum eyeball to screen distance for 20/20 vision to make maximum use of that level of resolution. It relates to the maximum resolution of the human eye, which is said to be one minute of angle at 20/20.Duane Dunn, Allegro wrote:My new PPC is 4" at 640x480, you'll have to do the DPI math
Duane, I'm not trying to argue which is the absolute "best" route. Best may be lowest price with a little more work for some, and higher price totally turnkey for others. Best also may not include very high resolution for some of us older folks.
--
Moe
-
Chip Hindes
- Admiral
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:13 am
- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
I have a Garmin 176C which is adequate, but I wish the screen were larger; on the other hand, the larger screens are just way too much money. What really gripes me about the whole thing is the Garmin proprietary Bluechart firmware which also is adequate, but overpriced, and their really crappy upgrade policy. Basically, if it's much over three months old when they come out with a revised version, they allow you to buy a new one for full price.
But I have another question: Does anyone else notice how these things eat batteries, or is there something wrong with mine? I understand about the screen and backlight being power hungry, but I never run it on batteries anyway; it's just for backup if the cord gets unplugged. And yes, I do have it set to shut off after 30 seconds if that happens. But even when turned off the entire time (it happens in winter when you live in the northeast) mine will kill a set of batteries in a month.
I notice the same thing for my Geko handheld backup. It's not much good as a backup if every time you pull it out the batteries are dead.
But I have another question: Does anyone else notice how these things eat batteries, or is there something wrong with mine? I understand about the screen and backlight being power hungry, but I never run it on batteries anyway; it's just for backup if the cord gets unplugged. And yes, I do have it set to shut off after 30 seconds if that happens. But even when turned off the entire time (it happens in winter when you live in the northeast) mine will kill a set of batteries in a month.
I notice the same thing for my Geko handheld backup. It's not much good as a backup if every time you pull it out the batteries are dead.
-
Jack O'Brien
- Captain
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:28 pm
- Location: West Palm Beach, Florida, 2000X, Gostosa III
etrex
Chip:
I just checked my cheapest-model Garmin etrex. It says "battery low-ok". Can't remember when the batteries were put in - months ago. I'm slightly surprised they are low. Don't use it except as backup for the Garmin GPSMAP 180 (old, big B&W) or, if I ever get to it, feed for Fugawe on the laptop.
I just checked my cheapest-model Garmin etrex. It says "battery low-ok". Can't remember when the batteries were put in - months ago. I'm slightly surprised they are low. Don't use it except as backup for the Garmin GPSMAP 180 (old, big B&W) or, if I ever get to it, feed for Fugawe on the laptop.
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Waternwaves,
I cruise the same large area you do and I agree that there is no way to do it without charts. By the way, having eCharts on board meets all legal requirements for charts oth in the US and Canada.
I feel I am far safer having a eCharts and moving map display than any one trying to navigate from a paper chart. Being able to see at any and every moment exactly where you are and what is ahead is far safer than having to work out bearings, time over distance, and all the stuff necessary with a paper chart let alone keep that picture in your head as you cruise along. Using a paper chart entails much more time heads down than using an electronic one. I prefer to have as much time looking ahead as possible with the endless floating junk you have to dodge in our waters. I was amazed at how bad it was around Nanaimo. The GPS track looked like we had a drunk driver.
I have no worries about my PPC surviving at the pedestal. In it's Otter case nothing short of a sledge hammer is going to do any damage to it. It's more rugged and protected than the Lowrance GPS itself. Drop it overboard it floats, it's completely weatherproof. My pedestal is very organized and in 1300+ miles I have never had any problem with instruments there. I do however feel that laptops have no place in our small helm area. Maybe a tablet, but not a full sized laptop.
I also think another advantage of portable units such as the 276 or176 is they can go with you into the liferaft if need be. (if we had a liferaft, I guess the dinghy has to serve for now. Not having to leave the boat, isn't that why we have unsinkable MacGregors and put up with all the foam in the way of our mods?) A fixed unit like the 172/178 is dead and gone with the boat. The portables keep working when you switch to the backup. The same is true of my PPC in it's case. It will continue to be useful in many ways. It has all the charts, can give me a position using the spare backup eTrex, and it also has a full tide and currents app ready to help make decisions. I even have a pdf version of my cruising guide in it.
Portables can also be taken along for side excursions. It's not uncommon that we will be anchored in one cove and cruise quite a ways from it in the dinghy. With a portable, or in my case the PPC can go with us in the dinghy so we don't run it into any hazards. Even better, with the PPC, when we decide to take a hike we just load up the topo map and have it available for reference along the way. (Be sure you have a big flash card to carry all the maps)
As for some other points you mention. My PPC app has a night mode that uses night vision friendly colors. It also helps to drop the brightness some. It never get's lost in the dark like paper charts do, no flashlights needed. At night in urban enviroments is where I have most appreciated it. Cruising through the ship canal, lake union, and the Montlake cut is some of the hardest night runs I've made. The clutter of lights is terrible, there is no way to pick out navigation lights from the background of millions of other lights. Being able to know exactly where you are on the chart is priceless. Even better is to just turn on the pilot and have it follow the safe route. Now you can devote all your attention to making sure you don't hit anything or any one. When the weather gets really foul my cockpit is all zipped up anyway and nice and dry but even if it wasn't everything there is waterproof.
Speaking of chart copies, with the PC part of the app you can print custom charts exactly to your needs. You can print the specific area needed, with planned routes, waypoints, special notes, any zoom level, you can even merge charts and print what would be impossible to copy. They even sell special waterproof paper so you don't need a baggie for you printouts.
Everyone has their own level of comfort with electronics on the boat. As far as I'm concerned my family is far safer with the electronics on board than they would ever be with paper alone.
I cruise the same large area you do and I agree that there is no way to do it without charts. By the way, having eCharts on board meets all legal requirements for charts oth in the US and Canada.
I feel I am far safer having a eCharts and moving map display than any one trying to navigate from a paper chart. Being able to see at any and every moment exactly where you are and what is ahead is far safer than having to work out bearings, time over distance, and all the stuff necessary with a paper chart let alone keep that picture in your head as you cruise along. Using a paper chart entails much more time heads down than using an electronic one. I prefer to have as much time looking ahead as possible with the endless floating junk you have to dodge in our waters. I was amazed at how bad it was around Nanaimo. The GPS track looked like we had a drunk driver.
I have no worries about my PPC surviving at the pedestal. In it's Otter case nothing short of a sledge hammer is going to do any damage to it. It's more rugged and protected than the Lowrance GPS itself. Drop it overboard it floats, it's completely weatherproof. My pedestal is very organized and in 1300+ miles I have never had any problem with instruments there. I do however feel that laptops have no place in our small helm area. Maybe a tablet, but not a full sized laptop.
I also think another advantage of portable units such as the 276 or176 is they can go with you into the liferaft if need be. (if we had a liferaft, I guess the dinghy has to serve for now. Not having to leave the boat, isn't that why we have unsinkable MacGregors and put up with all the foam in the way of our mods?) A fixed unit like the 172/178 is dead and gone with the boat. The portables keep working when you switch to the backup. The same is true of my PPC in it's case. It will continue to be useful in many ways. It has all the charts, can give me a position using the spare backup eTrex, and it also has a full tide and currents app ready to help make decisions. I even have a pdf version of my cruising guide in it.
Portables can also be taken along for side excursions. It's not uncommon that we will be anchored in one cove and cruise quite a ways from it in the dinghy. With a portable, or in my case the PPC can go with us in the dinghy so we don't run it into any hazards. Even better, with the PPC, when we decide to take a hike we just load up the topo map and have it available for reference along the way. (Be sure you have a big flash card to carry all the maps)
As for some other points you mention. My PPC app has a night mode that uses night vision friendly colors. It also helps to drop the brightness some. It never get's lost in the dark like paper charts do, no flashlights needed. At night in urban enviroments is where I have most appreciated it. Cruising through the ship canal, lake union, and the Montlake cut is some of the hardest night runs I've made. The clutter of lights is terrible, there is no way to pick out navigation lights from the background of millions of other lights. Being able to know exactly where you are on the chart is priceless. Even better is to just turn on the pilot and have it follow the safe route. Now you can devote all your attention to making sure you don't hit anything or any one. When the weather gets really foul my cockpit is all zipped up anyway and nice and dry but even if it wasn't everything there is waterproof.
Speaking of chart copies, with the PC part of the app you can print custom charts exactly to your needs. You can print the specific area needed, with planned routes, waypoints, special notes, any zoom level, you can even merge charts and print what would be impossible to copy. They even sell special waterproof paper so you don't need a baggie for you printouts.
Everyone has their own level of comfort with electronics on the boat. As far as I'm concerned my family is far safer with the electronics on board than they would ever be with paper alone.
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
My eTrex seems to save it's batteries quite well. I just pulled it out for scout night hike earlier in the week and it still was at full even though it's been in the boat for months. I can't even remember when I last changed it's batteries. It's the most basic cheap one they make, the little yellow one which probably doesn't have a standby feature.
Perhaps the higher end units like the 176 are only going into a standby mode rather than really turning off. This would allow them to get a quicker 'warm fix' when switched on rather than the longer 'cold fix'.
This is something you have to watch with the Pocket PC's as well. Even when you turn it off it is still really on. It's keeping the RAM powered and the CPU continues to do background tasks. Most apps aren't even closed when you tap the 'x' button. They just slide into the background ready for the next time you want them. They are still loaded in memory.
Perhaps the higher end units like the 176 are only going into a standby mode rather than really turning off. This would allow them to get a quicker 'warm fix' when switched on rather than the longer 'cold fix'.
This is something you have to watch with the Pocket PC's as well. Even when you turn it off it is still really on. It's keeping the RAM powered and the CPU continues to do background tasks. Most apps aren't even closed when you tap the 'x' button. They just slide into the background ready for the next time you want them. They are still loaded in memory.
-
Chip Hindes
- Admiral
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:13 am
- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
If you think you're gonna do that, it can't be the absolute cheapest model, because that one has no output capability.Jack wrote:Don't use it except as backup for the Garmin GPSMAP 180 (old, big B&W) or, if I ever get to it, feed for Fugawe on the laptop
My Geko is the second cheapest model, which does have output capability, and I have been halfway successful in running it into the laptop.
Unfortunately, so far I have been able to get the proprietary Garmin Mapsource software to recognize the GPS output only in NMEA mode, not Garmin mode. In NMEA mode you can't use the expensive hi res Bluecharts, only the built in basemap. With that, Bimini (for instance) looks like something a bird dropped on the computer screen as he was flying over.
So, as far as I'm concerned the value of that capability is somwhere between marginal and downright worthless. Yet another reason I dislike Garmin.
I have not tried it yet with Fugawi. Do you use the free downloadable charts? I originally had the idea I could use these in a pinch, instead of the expensive Garmin Bluecharts, but I'm totally not impressed with the quality. They seem primarily designed for keeping large commercial ships from crashing into stationary shore based objects, or the bottom. They're not so good for shallow water gunkholers like us. Plus they never seem to have any for where I'm going to be.
They are free so I guess you could say you get what you paid for.
-
waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
Duane....
dont get me wrong, I carry two ship GPS's and leave a pocket etrex in the vest, with the vhf, lights, whistle. etc....
I am not against electronic navigation....
I just want more than what is offered at this time.....to truly navigate quicker than me, I need a big screen, extremely fast update time... (forget the magellens) multi use displays....and enviro sealed..for a mac cockpit... IT just is not all together yet.... . and I go drool at west marine and on others boats all the time...
I also carry a laptop inside capable of running various nav/charting products.
But me, I navigate mostly at the helm, can look at a chart quickly, dead reckon, interpolate, calculate, navigate, integrate, and say she's great enroute, one of my practice navaids in the north sound is to pilot the little pocket cruiser (30-40 kts) read the map..and then call out the coordinates out by taking visual bearings with the hand compass & boat compass to the passenger reading the GPS, always fun to be within a few seconds/minute fractions..... makes for a fun game...cuts down the boredom type thing.
SO, as not to argue with everyone who has plunked down their moolah to obtain these wonderous toys....., they are great aids..., just not good enough yet to replace charts for me in the cockpit of the mac.
And yes... I navigate with radar at night...
Which actually makes montlake a little easier...
and I use red light at night on charts....
and I agree, montlake gets visually very funky at night,
So I am not averse to tools....but as of yet... I use GPS info to confirm where I am.. harder for me to get the big picture on a smaller screen.
As far as the canadien NDI chart base....and the requirement for charts in canada.... several months ago..Canada updated the description of what is required....for mariners.....and actually specified that if you were in certain locations and far enough from hazards you could do away with charts with the max resolution for that location.... and now in the last 2 months, the wording on the canada info page has changed again to include. "with sufficient local knowledge......" as a caveat allowing certain operators not to even have a chart on board. (wonder what the insurance folks say about that).
So I am familiar with the law, and the implementation as interpreted by CCG.
As a general statement I also agree with your "Everyone has their own level of comfort with electronics on the boat. As far as I'm concerned my family is far safer with the electronics on board than they would ever be with paper alone" I just use different electronics...
dont get me wrong, I carry two ship GPS's and leave a pocket etrex in the vest, with the vhf, lights, whistle. etc....
I am not against electronic navigation....
I just want more than what is offered at this time.....to truly navigate quicker than me, I need a big screen, extremely fast update time... (forget the magellens) multi use displays....and enviro sealed..for a mac cockpit... IT just is not all together yet.... . and I go drool at west marine and on others boats all the time...
I also carry a laptop inside capable of running various nav/charting products.
But me, I navigate mostly at the helm, can look at a chart quickly, dead reckon, interpolate, calculate, navigate, integrate, and say she's great enroute, one of my practice navaids in the north sound is to pilot the little pocket cruiser (30-40 kts) read the map..and then call out the coordinates out by taking visual bearings with the hand compass & boat compass to the passenger reading the GPS, always fun to be within a few seconds/minute fractions..... makes for a fun game...cuts down the boredom type thing.
SO, as not to argue with everyone who has plunked down their moolah to obtain these wonderous toys....., they are great aids..., just not good enough yet to replace charts for me in the cockpit of the mac.
And yes... I navigate with radar at night...
Which actually makes montlake a little easier...
and I use red light at night on charts....
and I agree, montlake gets visually very funky at night,
So I am not averse to tools....but as of yet... I use GPS info to confirm where I am.. harder for me to get the big picture on a smaller screen.
As far as the canadien NDI chart base....and the requirement for charts in canada.... several months ago..Canada updated the description of what is required....for mariners.....and actually specified that if you were in certain locations and far enough from hazards you could do away with charts with the max resolution for that location.... and now in the last 2 months, the wording on the canada info page has changed again to include. "with sufficient local knowledge......" as a caveat allowing certain operators not to even have a chart on board. (wonder what the insurance folks say about that).
So I am familiar with the law, and the implementation as interpreted by CCG.
As a general statement I also agree with your "Everyone has their own level of comfort with electronics on the boat. As far as I'm concerned my family is far safer with the electronics on board than they would ever be with paper alone" I just use different electronics...
-
Jack O'Brien
- Captain
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:28 pm
- Location: West Palm Beach, Florida, 2000X, Gostosa III
Yo Chip:Chip Hindes wrote:If you think you're gonna do that, it can't be the absolute cheapest model, because that one has no output capability.Jack wrote:Don't use it except as backup for the Garmin GPSMAP 180 (old, big B&W) or, if I ever get to it, feed for Fugawe on the laptop
I have not tried it yet with Fugawi. Do you use the free downloadable charts? I originally had the idea I could use these in a pinch, instead of the expensive Garmin Bluecharts, but I'm totally not impressed with the quality. They seem primarily designed for keeping large commercial ships from crashing into stationary shore based objects, or the bottom. They're not so good for shallow water gunkholers like us. Plus they never seem to have any for where I'm going to be.
They are free so I guess you could say you get what you paid for.
It's been a couple years since I bought the etrex and I thought it was the cheapest but, who knows? It has no model name on it. It does have output and I have fed it to Fugawe on the laptop and it shows a little boat on the the charts where I am. As I have only been in the family room I didn't get lost yet. The third-party cable for it also allows power input so it doesn't drain the batteries.
The free second-stage ENS charts from NOAA are supposed to be as good as a paper chart and they have a LOT more info than the first-stage ones which were primarily for freighters and ports. For example #11463_1 "Sands Key to Blackwater Sound" is a 1:40,000 large scale, detailed chart ideal for going from Homestead Bayfront Marina, or Black Point, to the Angelfish anchorage.
I'm tickled you also have Fugawe, and that Moe does also. I'm told it is not the easiest program to use and I believe it. I'm trying to slowly get to know it but haven't gotten far into it yet. Do you know of a tutorial?
I also have a bunch of the Maptech charts loaded in the laptop and they are good. Unfortunately, the Maptech program is loaded in the desktop and doubt I can transfer it as I don't have the disks. Not a big deal as Fugawe can use the BSB Maptech charts, or any kind.
-
Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
Chip, as far as the NOAA S-57 charts go it really depends on you area. The second edition S-57 charts have everybit of detail about the water as the paper chart or your bluechart for that matter. Shore side info is still lacking. Unfortunately there are still holes. The free San Juan's S-57 set is excellent and all you need except right smack dab in the middle of the islands there is a hole with no coverage. Who's the idiot at NOAA that let that slip through. If you haven't looked in the last 6 months don't be surprised to find there is awhole updated S-57 set out there. The library is growing quite fast.
I was very disappointed in the way Fugawi displayed the S-57 data. I find it to be a pretty poor app compared to others out there both for vector and raster charts. Their handheld apps seem stuck in time also with no real additions of new features.
Download the demo of Map Cruiser from www.navsim.com or Coastal Explorer from www.rosepointnav.com . They both do a beautiful job of displaying the S-57 charts. They also quilt all the charts on you system into an excellent mosaic. Higher detail charts lay over the wide area ones, as you move and zoom into a new area with higher detail the chart changes to show the most detail. If you have any raster charts they will even quilt the raster and the vector data in the same mosaic. The rasters will fill the holes in the s-57 vector products.
If you have a set of raster only charts I highly recommend Memory Map Navigator, www.memory-map.com . It's ease of use is right up there with the high priced products. Simple to pan, zoom, build routes, etc . It doesn't quilt like the more expensive products, but it does show the outlines of all the charts you have in the system so it is easy to tell if there is a more detailed chart available. For ease of use and low cost it easily beats Fugawi or OziExplorer. The app with the handheld support is only $99.
I was very disappointed in the way Fugawi displayed the S-57 data. I find it to be a pretty poor app compared to others out there both for vector and raster charts. Their handheld apps seem stuck in time also with no real additions of new features.
Download the demo of Map Cruiser from www.navsim.com or Coastal Explorer from www.rosepointnav.com . They both do a beautiful job of displaying the S-57 charts. They also quilt all the charts on you system into an excellent mosaic. Higher detail charts lay over the wide area ones, as you move and zoom into a new area with higher detail the chart changes to show the most detail. If you have any raster charts they will even quilt the raster and the vector data in the same mosaic. The rasters will fill the holes in the s-57 vector products.
If you have a set of raster only charts I highly recommend Memory Map Navigator, www.memory-map.com . It's ease of use is right up there with the high priced products. Simple to pan, zoom, build routes, etc . It doesn't quilt like the more expensive products, but it does show the outlines of all the charts you have in the system so it is easy to tell if there is a more detailed chart available. For ease of use and low cost it easily beats Fugawi or OziExplorer. The app with the handheld support is only $99.