Extreme heeling in a water ballasted(?) boat

[Steve K]

All these boats conduct light through the hull, in places. But this in not just a Macgregor thing. M Catalina was like this and I saw a Hunter once that was the same way. (only Hunter I've ever seen this close up)

You have to remember that fiberglass is actually pretty clear, by nature. This doesn't mean it is weak in some way. If there was no gelcoat finish, you would see light coming in through the fiberglass everywhere.

My D boat seems pretty thin along the waterline and I have thought about adding a layer of layup in this area, mostly because this area takes a lot of stress, when you lay the boat over on dry ground (which is a great way to work on the bottom.

For a boat the size of these, and for the type of average use, These boats ares plenty tough....... and they cant take more than I can.
I was once hit by a 65 foot houseboat (when I owned my X), while tied up to a dock. The boat lost it's engines suddenly and was hit by 50mph gusting wind at the same moment. The rear corner of this big square beast hit my X right at the shrouds and pushed me into the dock. It felt like my boat had been crushed, between the two. I thought my boat was a goner. The only damage was a black mark, from the houseboat's rubrail. We cleaned off the black mark, then shined a very bright light through, at all points of impact................. There were no signs of even the smallest hairline crack anywhere.

The two, very expensive power boats, that were also impacted were damaged badly. I remember one had about a foot of it's bow missing and splintered.

SK

[jbousquin]

Speaking of light coming through the hull, I noticed this light pinhole one afternoon while working up in the V-Berth. This is on the starboard side, inside the storage locker. The sun was setting on that side of the boat, shining directly on the hull. You can see the little blue pinpoint of light in the middle.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/81456312@N02/7557494302/

From what others have said, I'm thinking I shouldn't worry about this unless blue water starts shooting through?

[dlandersson]

The fiberglass construction method used by Roger is much stronger than the average bear gives it credit for.

In 20+ years, and thousands of boats, no record of original construction materials failure ever reported.

[raycarlson]

i guess when island packet builds their 26 footer and the hull thickness is a minimum of 1-2" at any location on the hull they do it just because they like wasting glass and resin. get real, everyone knows everything that goes on with the engineering of a mac is the absolute minimum required to meet the performance model,thats the only way a poor schmuck like me can afford to own a brand new 26 foot boat.but with my own labor and skill i can substancially improve on what mac started.stick your head down inside any underseat compartment with a flash light look around at the level of finish quality,i did and i was terrified.as long as i was going to spend a week or two at a time refinishing each compartment i figured why not make everyone of them water tight,combine liner with a bulkhead to improve stiffness,increase hull thickness and finish with gelcoat(no more shards of fiberglass under your fingernail).everybody has their own standards, i just set mine a little higher then roger macg.

[Mac26Mpaul]

Keelboats and Trailer sailers - apples and oranges...

and

Light showing through the hull is normal and nothing to be concerned about...

[dlandersson]

I don't own stock in Roger's company...but your given "reasons" have zip to do with material performance. Still, in this country you are the freedom to pretty much mod as your want. Gotta love the USA.

Your higher standards apparently don't include writing "I" instead of "i".

i guess when island packet builds their 26 footer and the hull thickness is a minimum of 1-2" at any location on the hull they do it just because they like wasting glass and resin. get real, everyone knows everything that goes on with the engineering of a mac is the absolute minimum required to meet the performance model,thats the only way a poor schmuck like me can afford to own a brand new 26 foot boat.but with my own labor and skill i can substancially improve on what mac started.stick your head down inside any underseat compartment with a flash light look around at the level of finish quality,i did and i was terrified.as long as i was going to spend a week or two at a time refinishing each compartment i figured why not make everyone of them water tight,combine liner with a bulkhead to improve stiffness,increase hull thickness and finish with gelcoat(no more shards of fiberglass under your fingernail).everybody has their own standards, i just set mine a little higher then roger macg.

[Steve K]

For a boat the size of these, and for the type of average use, These boats ares plenty tough....... and they cant take more than I can.

TYPO
I meant to say CAN........ they can take a lot more than I can.
I've been in 9 foot seas off San Diego and 6 foot waves on Lake Mead (which is worse). The boat loved it......... me, not so much

SK

[raycarlson]

what is material performance refering to? and rogers fiberglass building methods are nothing special, standard roving and mat with poly resin,no rocket science there.not sure if you're just defending rogers PR infomercials or if you actually know anything about frp, but i know i've more than doubled the stiffness and rigidity of the hull no to mention the cosmetic improvement.

[dlandersson]

You seem to be focusing on rigidity and cosmetics.

Those are simply not the same as material performance.

what is material performance refering to? and rogers fiberglass building methods are nothing special, standard roving and mat with poly resin,no rocket science there.not sure if you're just defending rogers PR infomercials or if you actually know anything about frp, but i know i've more than doubled the stiffness and rigidity of the hull no to mention the cosmetic improvement.

[Russ]

i guess when island packet builds their 26 footer and the hull thickness is a minimum of 1-2" at any location on the hull they do it just because they like wasting glass and resin.

Really? 1-2 inches at ANY location. That must be so heavy. 1 inch of glass minimum? Wow! That means there are places with more than 3" of glass. What does that weigh?


I've never stepped foot on a packet, but my Hunter's hull was about 1/8 inch thick when I drilled the hole for the knotmeter.

So thousands of Macs built and I've yet to find a story of one sinking because of thin glass. I don't know, the weight vs. rigidity thing always comes up. I don't want to trailer a 10,000 pound boat for thicker glass. And for what? So if I hit a rock at 10 knots it won't make a crack. I bet our Macs would bounce off most round rocks if we hit them.

All that weight would make it motor like a pig. No thanks.

Sure, Roger makes thin hulled boats. But statistically, they have a fantastic safety record so I'm not worried.

And yea, fiberGLASS is translucent. My Hunter had lots of light coming through the hull. That is no indication of strength.

[Steve K]

I actually think that these boats get most of their punishment, bouncing on the road. Think about it. Have you ever been down the freeway in a vehicle with no shocks Gotta be a rough ride.
Yea, I've hit some pretty rough water, but water is squishy. Trailers are pretty stiff and the roads these days
The 12 mile road to the marina I go to @ Mead used to be one of the roughest stretches....... worn out pavement combined with gravel patches, potholes that could swallow a tire.

And you have to remember, the boats are built strong enough to withstand the pounding of planing in sizable waves.
Pretty rough on the boat, if you ask me

The I. P. mentioned is really not a good comparison. It's really a much bigger boat and built as an ocean going pocket cruiser. I bet the ballast alone weighs more than my whole boat.
And really...... 2 inches thick Are you sure about that I can see around the keel mountings, but the whole boat
I've heard guys say that I. P.s are overbuilt........ that's why they cost the big bucks, I guess.

The first mod I would make to a Mac, if I was worried about structural failures, wouldn't be the hull itself. It would be some kind of upgrade to those silly plastic windows, that are mounted with a couple #10 screws and a little RTV. And seriously, the hull/deck joint ain't all that either (they don't stand up to hard hits from piling very well).

But believe me......... these boats are really built fine, for their intended use, though.

Anyway, just my thoughts on some of this.......... not intended to make anyone

Best Breezes,
Steve K.
Mac 26D "Three Sheets"

[dlandersson]

Perhaps this will help - taking note of your name and likely heritage.

"The longships' light, flexible, economic construction was a major factor behind their success."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/viking-ships.html

what is material performance refering to? and rogers fiberglass building methods are nothing special, standard roving and mat with poly resin,no rocket science there.not sure if you're just defending rogers PR infomercials or if you actually know anything about frp, but i know i've more than doubled the stiffness and rigidity of the hull no to mention the cosmetic improvement.

[raycarlson]

first you critque my use of punctuation and grammar, now it's my nationality and heritige.i thought we were arguing our opinion's about boat construction. what again is it you're trying to express with the term "material performance" and how that makes rogers glass work superior?? ps im not an english major and i"ve never set foot on swedish soil.

[dlandersson]

Sorry - didn't realize we were arguing.

first you critque my use of punctuation and grammar, now it's my nationality and heritige.i thought we were arguing our opinion's about boat construction. what again is it you're trying to express with the term "material performance" and how that makes rogers glass work superior?? ps im not an english major and i"ve never set foot on swedish soil.

[raycarlson]

argue,debate,discuss it's all fun!!