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PlanetExpress wrote:One thing I do notice is at the sail where the boom meets the gooseneck, I feel like the sail could be tighter.

I use a trucker's hitch to get any slack out of the luff of the sail. Works well.

Is the halyard shackle or knot perhaps hitting the top? That would certainly prevent the halyard from finishing the job.

I found my M slow at the beginning. I was always over sheeting. Start by the jib and pull it in just enough to stop the luffing and then do the same for the main. The luff telltales are useful for upwind. If the leeward telltales are stalled you need to let it out a bit. After a tack, sale a little more off the wind to get speed before you point up.

Another indication that your sails are trimmed correctly will be that your rudders will be straight back. A turned rudder is like a brake. If the wheel is turned to leeward, you need to lighten up on the jib sheet. IF to windward, lighten the main.

Make sure your keel is down all the way if you want any kind of pointing speed.

Being a light boat, you will get slowed dramatically by any waves so keep that into account.

Finally, the through hull on my knot-meter is squash a bit resulting in some extra friction on the paddle wheel. My GPS always measures more speed than the knot-meter. When in doubt, always brag about the speed measured by the instrument showing the highest one

PlanetExpress wrote:it is one slow boat. The wind was pretty decent but we just seemed to be stalled. What are some things I can try to improve performance?

Check below waterline. If trailer still attached, consider leaving trailer on shore.


I too am on L. Ontario - Toronto (TSCC, west of Western Gap). Never been to Outer Harbour Marina, though I've been by it on my way to Cathedral Bluffs. Maybe I'll see you in the inner harbour some day.

I had very similar issues out of the gate with my Coming from a Columbia Sabre '32 that I could easily and routinely get to 8 knots, I had a rude awakening with the Mac. Basically I found out that I didn't know that much about sailing.

Here are the points that I've really had to learn:

1) Do not pull the jib through a tack until you are on your new course. Leave it back-winded all the way through the tack. Pulling it through before that will de-power the boat and drop speed to near zero, and you may find that you can't make the tack. Simply coming around completely through the tack before resetting the jib will solve that problem.

2) Over steering the helm stops the boat. On these boats, the rudders and the motor are linked and they turn the same, but they have different purposes, so the helm can go way farther over than the rudders should ever be turned. When they go beyond about 30 degrees, they become sideways boards that act as brakes and really reduce forward momentum. Worse, because the helm initially seems really sloppy, I tended to over steer from side to side, compounding the problem. When under sail, I keep my turning circles wide--essentially no better than what I could do with a tiller. Under power, you can turn these boats on a dime and that's nice, but there's no stops to prevent you from braking the boat by oversteering with the helm.

3) The boat REALLY wants to be at a 20 degree heel. It doesn't not have the rounded hull of a true sailboat, so it has varying hull efficiencies at different heels. At 45 degrees, you're loosing power. The trick to this one is to sail with the mainsheet in your hand, either uncleated or with a procedure to really snap it out of the cam-cleat quickly, and just use constant tension to allow gusts to spill and tighten in immediately when the sheet feels slack. Spilling and tightening in real time has done the most to get me above 5 knots consistently.

4) The boat's theoretical hull speed is 6.4 knots. A great sailor won't do better than that in these boats routinely, although there's plenty of footage of people planing downwind up to truly ridiculous speeds.

5) If you're using a roller furling Genoa, understand that it's not the most efficient sail in anything but light airs. I usually run with mine furled to 100% or less vice it's full 150%. My rule is basically this: I start on the main only, get sheeted with the main and vang to maximum speed, and then check that speed. If I'm doing 3 knots or below, I pull out the full 150%. That usually gets me to the 20% heel sweet spot, and then I can spill wind with the mainsheet to keep the heel right. If I'm doing 4 knots, I'll pull it out to 100%, and if I'm doing 5 knots, I only bring out 70% or less. If I'm already at 6 knots, I only bring out a patch to compensate for helm balance. The point here is to set the Genoa so that you average that 20% heel, and then you use the main to loosen or tighten in real time. I only change the furl after that when the weather actually changes.

6) If you're not using a roller furling Genoa, go get one I'm really not sure how I'd balance the helm with a hank-on jib with this boat.

Excellent tips Mastreb. Sending to the Admiral who, funny enough, will take the advice of others before mine

Thanks mastreb. Printing off these notes.

Are Sails blown out, do you have a 1-2 degree mast rake aft, do you have a 105 jib useing forward track with sheet line about 60-65 % in line from bottom of clew (track adjustment), do you let out main beating to windward to allow proper wind flow past main, when heeled 15 degrees are your leeward side stay to slack?
I sail very well beating to windward with jib (2 years old) and new main from Judy and easy beat to windward 45degrees off wind in apparant 8 Knts and do 5Knots easy.
All other points of sail is just a faster ride except down wind as you need higher wind. I often wing out with wisker pole up to 30 degrees from true down wind.
There is much more involved but above is things I would first look at.
Dave

PlanetExpress wrote:

Hamin' X wrote:We really need more info.

OK, you are right I didn't give enough information.

Hamin' X wrote: Are you having problems in light winds? moderate to high winds? Light, or heavy seas?

I am having issues in all wind. I do have White Sail III so I am pretty good with sail trim. I am pretty sure it is either a tuning or sail issue. I am going to try to tighten up the shrowds and stays. One thing I do notice is at the sail where the boom meets the gooseneck, I feel like the sail could be tighter. It is pulled up the mast as far as I could get it but it seems a bit fluffy at that point. Also, the boom is rubbing on the dodger, I cant pull it up high enough to let it clear. The jib is on a furling system and I think it is creating 80% of the power that I am getting. We had the tell tails sticking straight off the back of the sail on a close reach and we were stalling out.

Hamin' X wrote:Trouble rounding up when beating, or heeling too much. More info please.

The issue is she wont get going. Not even in 15mph winds. She kind of bobs around and putters. I know it can go way faster than it is sailing right now. We got smoked by an optimist dinghy.

Planet.....
We do need specifics. Think of an instant in which your boat speed was "slow" or you just "seemed to be stalled". For that instant, list;
measured boat speed?
wind speed and direction?
heading?
heel angle?
head sail up? luff unwrinkled? working jib? sheeted inside the shrouds? genoa? sheeted outside the shrouds? windward and leeward tell-tales streaming smoothly along the sail surfaces? sheeting in or out improve boat speed?
mainsail up? luff unwrinkled? tell-tales doing what? sheeting in or out improve boat speed?
centerboard line let out how far?
wheel centered....i.e. rudders centered? if not, rudder trailing edges set to windward or leeward?
Board members.....any other specifics needed, to help diagnose the problem?
Ron

mastreb wrote:I had very similar issues out of the gate with my Coming from a Columbia Sabre '32 that I could easily and routinely get to 8 knots, I had a rude awakening with the Mac. Basically I found out that I didn't know that much about sailing.

Here are the points that I've really had to learn:

5) If you're using a roller furling Genoa, understand that it's not the most efficient sail in anything but light airs. I usually run with mine furled to 100% or less vice it's full 150%. My rule is basically this: I start on the main only, get sheeted with the main and vang to maximum speed, and then check that speed. If I'm doing 3 knots or below, I pull out the full 150%. That usually gets me to the 20% heel sweet spot, and then I can spill wind with the mainsheet to keep the heel right. If I'm doing 4 knots, I'll pull it out to 100%, and if I'm doing 5 knots, I only bring out 70% or less. If I'm already at 6 knots, I only bring out a patch to compensate for helm balance. The point here is to set the Genoa so that you average that 20% heel, and then you use the main to loosen or tighten in real time. I only change the furl after that when the weather actually changes.

Mastreb, Really interesting points here. I had a bit of a similar revelation along the same lines on my 26M the other day that I wanted to share.

Basically, sailing on the Delta here in NorCal almost guarantees a nightly breeze of 10-15 knots. I've been struggling to deal with the heel this creates -- routinely at 30+ degrees, and often going to 45+ on gusts while close hauled. (I do hold the main in my hand to spill wind).

The other night, it was blowing around 13, and since I was single-handing, reefed the stock main to her single reef point before I left the dock. I use the same progression as you: get the main up, see how I'm doing, and then unfurl my 100% jib-no need for the 150 around here. Usually, in these conditions, I would unfurl the jib halfway or 2/3 of the way. But the other night, with the reefed main, I was already doing about 4 mph SOG, so I just deployed the tiniest bit of jib -- maybe a quarter of my 100 sail.

Much to my surprise, the boat sailed extremely well -- basically, she heeled to that sweet spot at 20 degrees while sailing about 50 degrees off the apparent wind. I was able to spill wind from the main during gusts and had plenty of steerage in my helm, since the boat wasn't fighting me to round up. I reached 5.5 mph SOG several times over about a 3 hour period as the wind continued to build.

For me, it was kind of a break-thru sail, in that I felt I was finally controlling the heel of the boat much better, and achieving the speed I wanted, even with a reduced sail plan. Adding to it, I think, was that the wind was slightly southerly, which meant I didn't have to point quite as high as I usually do to get where I wanted to go -- low and behold, when I wasn't trying to sail closer than 30 degrees to apparent wind, she behaved much better.

Funny, my Dad, and plenty of people on this board, have been telling me to reduce heel and not try to sail so close to the wind. Of course, it took me figuring this out on my own for it to really sink in. Thanks again for all the great recommendations.

RobertB wrote:Refinish the hull in blue and it will go faster

My hull is blue, and it never goes fast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... =3&theater

What's your secret

(should I have got a Mac? )

StUrrock wrote:

RobertB wrote:Refinish the hull in blue and it will go faster

My hull is blue, and it never goes fast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's your secret

Waxed hull, Whisker Pole, and a Well stocked bar

jbousquin wrote:Funny, my Dad, and plenty of people on this board, have been telling me to reduce heel and not try to sail so close to the wind. Of course, it took me figuring this out on my own for it to really sink in. Thanks again for all the great recommendations.

The majority of my problems with sailing the Mac early on were caused by being over-sheeted constantly. As with my previous full keel boat, my practice was to pull the genny out completely and go sailing, and with that boat over-sheeting didn't affect helm at all--it just went to heel, and with it's round hull there was no performance penalty for over-heeling, hence it was a simple boat to sail.

The Mac rounds up partially, and you may not even notice it. With too much jib out it will sail while actually crabbing a bit to windward, which you wind up fighting with the rudders angled to keep course and this gets your speed down to no better than 3 knots.

Symptoms are you've got a lot of sail out, You're bow isn't pointing directly at the course you're making, the boat is heeling quite a bit because it's being blown over, rudders are not straight back, and you feel like you're not getting anywhere.

The foresail is really, really important to helm balance on these boats and it needs to be fine tuned, which is why I think they're much easier to sail with a roller reefer even though you do lose some aerodynamic efficiency compared to a hank-on. A roller might lose 15% of efficiency, but gains it right back if that hank-on is too much or too little sail for the wind conditions, which is more likely the case.