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We have light boats with flat bottoms with high freeboard and there isn't much underwater to keep the boat from being blown sideways. I ALWAYS keeps all fins down while docking. ALWAYS. If the board is up, the boat turns horribly. Drop it down and it has a bite on the water.

Also, I have found that going TOO slow causes problems with control. No water moving over control surfaces and you have less, um , control. Coming in too slow causes me to lose steering because little water is flowing pas the rudders. Don't come in extra slow. That doesn't mean fast.

As mentioned, take advantage of the sideways propeller walk. I can turn around easily in a small space by backing to port.

Getting back on the trailer.
The X has the advantage of the board kicking up when it hits something. I keep the dagger down until just before I hit the trailer and pull it up. Rudders are left loose to kick up, but down for extra steering. Remember to pull them up before pulling the rig off the ramp.

You did good. If at all possible, I'd simply turn the boat around on the dock before heading out. Admiral may have had a valid point.

Admiral may have had a valid point.!! Last I heard from anyone who is married "They Always Do"

J

Rudders are left loose to kick up, but down for extra steering. Remember to pull them up before pulling the rig off the ramp.

I thought it might be helpful to relate an incident when I loosen my rudders to kick up, to help get me unstuck from an "unfriendly" bit of a sandbar, and that while in a near horizontal position, I turn the helm hard to starboard in reverse and the 14" prop took a good sized bite out of the starboard rudder! So...I have been careful to only use the rudders all the way up or down to avoid that possibility again fearing I might accidentally repeat my previous mistake.

Herschel wrote:

Rudders are left loose to kick up, but down for extra steering. Remember to pull them up before pulling the rig off the ramp.

I thought it might be helpful to relate an incident when I loosen my rudders to kick up, to help get me unstuck from an "unfriendly" bit of a sandbar, and that while in a near horizontal position, I turn the helm hard to starboard in reverse and the 14" prop took a good sized bite out of the starboard rudder! So...I have been careful to only use the rudders all the way up or down to avoid that possibility again fearing I might accidentally repeat my previous mistake.

Herschel, Thanks for sharing your "learning experience..." As one who made enough of a spectacle of himself at the marina my first year with the Mac (enough that people would stick their heads out of their boats when they heard me coming/going), I appreciate all the input here. This is my second season with my , and while the sailing from my youth came back to me like riding a bike when I got the boat, I still get a bit apprehensive about coming into the dock under power.

I always use both of my rudders all the way down while docking, but I will now also deploy my daggerboard halfway, which should be fine in my marina and give me much better turning ability.

It also makes sense now that my dad, who drove powerboats for years before getting into sailing, docked my Mac and made it look easy, even at very low speed... Thanks for all the lessons, Plops...

The more daggerboard, the better the turn, unless you're scraping bottom. At least with the dagger on the , it's always in the same place fore/aft. The swing centerboard on my changes the center of pressure depending on how far back it's tilted. Not a big deal, but it's something I noticed. I'm all for repeatability, so I put it half way down with one rudder only all the way down, and always do it the same way so I have a feel for it that doesn't change.

As far as your dad goes, my FIL really never sailed until I got my first boat, and he's been crewing for me for years now. But coming from a powerboat background, he coached me on using the directed thrust of the OB to my advantage. I now sail like it's a sailboat, but dock like it's a powerboat. Short bursts of power with the engine to one side or the other will spin it like it's on a gimbal, and wind isn't a problem like it was when I first go it. Light weight (even with ballast in) with high freeboard can be a tough combo in the wrong conditions, at least until I started thinking like a powerboater.

tkanzler wrote: .... Short bursts of power with the engine to one side or the other will spin it like it's on a gimbal, ....

Hm ... now that's something I must try!
Kittiwake

Google "back and fill" in a sailing context...

The with CB down will do this nicely..imagine the does too...

Catigale wrote:Google "back and fill" in a sailing context....

Basically, yeah, that's what it is, but with the advantage of aiming the prop the other way when you shift gears, it will spin like a top about that centerboard. Sort of.

The first hit I got was a discussion about 'back and fill' on a Krogan trawler site, which coincidentally, my FIL had for 26 years (42 ft). I got a lot of good boating experience on that trawler, including practice with slow maneuvers with a single screw.

My keelboat had a barn door of a rudder but a fixed single screw. The has little rudders (and little CB), but the ability to push the stern in one direction, and pull it in the same direction when the wheel is put hard over the opposite way and shifted into reverse - slows/stops the boat AND pulls the stern in the desired direction. Usually idle engine is all that's needed, but when it's a bit windy, short bursts really makes it spin.

http://www.his.com/~vann/KrgStuff/360turns.htm

I echo the advice given by others to have the dagger down about a foot to help steerage as well as dropping the rudders when maneuvering at the docks. I also like to lightly wrap the rudder lines around their cleats to avoid having extra line near the prop but allowing some give if they hit bottom. For tight spaces and docking, learn to use spring lines. That said, we will all still blow it on occasion. Nature has a way of throwing some impossible curve balls.

Rob

tkanzler wrote:

Catigale wrote:Google "back and fill" in a sailing context....

Basically, yeah, that's what it is, but with the advantage of aiming the prop the other way when you shift gears, it will spin like a top about that centerboard. Sort of. .... http://www.his.com/~vann/KrgStuff/360turns.htm

I have a feeling all single-prop-boat owners should have at least a quick peek at your notes & web site here Catigale & tkanzler: good thread.
From Ghost Busters 1: "I'm excited about this plan."
Kittiwake

When I'm under power, the rudders and the centerboard are always up. Even when docking, which I do at a pretty good clip. Just like Tkanzler said, I get my X to stop on a dime by turning the motor towards the dock and punching it in reverse to suck the stern over to the dock. Dock it like a motor boat. Maybe having grown up on a stink pot had something to do with it.

The-strikes wrote:When I'm under power, the rudders and the centerboard are always up. Even when docking, which I do at a pretty good clip. Just like Tkanzler said, I get my X to stop on a dime by turning the motor towards the dock and punching it in reverse to suck the stern over to the dock. Dock it like a motor boat. Maybe having grown up on a stink pot had something to do with it.

My hat's off to you. I grew up on keel boats, later owned a runabout and finally a Mac. I can stop the Mac on a dime with fins up, I just can turn it on a dime.

I back my boat out of the slip and then turn out to the marina inlet. A couple of times I forgot to put the board down and the boat was so slow to turn. It wanted to keep going forward despite my turning the wheel hard over. Then I dropped the board and woala, the boat instantly became manageable. Do that with no ballast and it's even worse. Add some wind and you are in trouble. Maybe the X has more bite on the water. Also I think fresh water is less dense and exacerbates it more, or at least I imagine it that way.

The "back and fill" technique or whatever you want to call it works very well, BTW. I could turn my Hunter 34 180 degrees almost in a boat length. I had to do that once when my hat blew off in the marina lagoon. People were amazed it turned so well. It also had a displacement hull with a deep keel in salt water.

I think the bottom line is you need to find what works. Some claim going slow works well, I say not. Others say no fins, I say not. Practice in places where you can't hit anything and take advantage of sideways blade walk.

The-strikes wrote:When I'm under power, the rudders and the centerboard are always up. Even when docking, which I do at a pretty good clip. Just like Tkanzler said, I get my X to stop on a dime by turning the motor towards the dock and punching it in reverse to suck the stern over to the dock. Dock it like a motor boat. Maybe having grown up on a stink pot had something to do with it.

My hat's off to you. I grew up on keel boats, later owned a runabout and finally a Mac. I can stop the Mac on a dime with fins up, I just can turn it on a dime.

I back my boat out of the slip and then turn out to the marina inlet. A couple of times I forgot to put the board down and the boat was so slow to turn. It wanted to keep going forward despite my turning the wheel hard over. Then I dropped the board and woala, the boat instantly became manageable. Do that with no ballast and it's even worse. Add some wind and you are in trouble. Maybe the X has more bite on the water. Also I think fresh water is less dense and exacerbates it more, or at least I imagine it that way.

The "back and fill" technique or whatever you want to call it works very well, BTW. I could turn my Hunter 34 180 degrees almost in a boat length. I had to do that once when my hat blew off in the marina lagoon. People were amazed it turned so well. It also had a displacement hull with a deep keel in salt water.

I think the bottom line is you need to find what works. Some claim going slow works well, I say not. Others say no fins, I say not. Practice in places where you can't hit anything and take advantage of sideways blade walk.

Interesting link, tkanzler! Thanks!

I had an idea that a Mac M with rudders and dagger down would weathercock at a dead stop, bow into the wind, sails furled, instead of helm into the wind . I'll have to check that one, because it looks like very good advice (that is, using the wind to help you turn) to use when attempting a minimum radius turn.

I've practised back and fills many times on a keel boat (Beneteau 34') around marker buoys. It's a very satisfying skill that requires a balance between fore and aft throttle and timing of the pulses. Once the initial rotation starts and the momentum builds the trick is to maintain it.

I also practised with the Mac last year (of course, the traditional keelboat back and fill will not work with the Mac configuration). As I recall, (I should have written it down) I found that the Mac turns to starboard with dagger and rudders down in quite a small radius simply by keeping hard to starboard and pulsing the throttle forward, and back to neutral, without even engaging reverse. The Admiral was growing impatient at the time, so I didn't get a chance to do a fair comparison to swinging the wheel over and engaging reverse, but as I recall, I was unable to maintain the swinging momentum when I did that. But maybe it's because I'm just clumsy or unpractised (?) I'll try again this season. - B.

I learned the hard way once.
I was bringing the boat into a dock in a new marina. It was low tide, and what I didn't know was that there was a mudbar that is only 1 ft depth at low tide. I came in with the board halfway down and rudders down. I grounded on the bar. I quickly raised the board and the rudders. Now, this is SFO Bay on a summer afternoon, so the wind is blowing 20+ kts. I tried proceeding, but even with quick bursts of throttle, I had no steerage whatsoever, and the wind is blowing the boat sideways very quickly, with the bow falling off faster than the stern. The boat quickly went into a spin, I lost control, and the bow clipped the anchor of a large sailboat that was end-tied on one of the slips. End result was a nice big chip in the fiberglass on my boat, near the black striping on the starboard bow.
The anchor on the other guys boat fared well
The fiberglass has since been fixed. Next time I tried it, I made that same approach in the same conditions (but not at low tide!) with the board down halfway and rudders down, and the boat tracks fine. Just point up a bit to compensate for the wind, and use generous bursts of throttle to stay on track.
I've gave up that tide limited slip, and got a better one.
Point is, board down halfway and rudders down has always worked well for me. You can get into trouble very quickly with all fins up and a crosswind.

Roger