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A small patch of jib might be up too high to be effective. The sail needs to ride as low as possible, so the jib would have to be rolled out fairly far. Remember, the less the jib is rolled out, the higher on the forestay it is. The higher on the forestay the more towards the center of the boat, and for the anchor sail to be effective, it needs to be far aft (or in this example, far foreward)

Ray

mastreb wrote:A question for someone who knows more about this than me (and apologies if this sounds stupid) but...

What about anchoring off the stern, and using a patch of the roller furling jib as an anchor sail? Is there any particular advantage to anchoring from the bow other than that's where the chain locker is located?

Not a bad question and I read either on the Internet or in a magazine about anchoring off the stern and there were a lot of positives about it. One was that an anchor sail isn't really needed. The boat doesn't need one as I believe that the boat itself acts kind of like a drogue chute. There was also something that I didn't like about it, but that escapes me right now . If I find it and it is on the net I'll post a link.

Like you said we have...



..all of our anchor gear forward now and it works, so why change, at least for us. One other small thing......we already get laughed at since when we leave a dock we usually forget to pull the fenders in until we see someone pointing and laughing so floating around on anchorage stern first vs. everyone else being bow first would just give them one more reason to think people sailing Macs are not too bright .

Just so there is no confusion when I mentioned anchoring from the stern to avoid sailing on anchor I'm not talking about using a stern anchor in conjunction with a bow anchor. We never used a stern anchor that way, but would tie to shore in that manner and after some less than ideal situations at night when the wind changed would never do either again while anchored overnight ,

Sum

Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Sumner wrote:

mastreb wrote:A question for someone who knows more about this than me (and apologies if this sounds stupid) but...
What about anchoring off the stern, and using a patch of the roller furling jib as an anchor sail? Is there any particular advantage to anchoring from the bow other than that's where the chain locker is located?

..... There was also something that I didn't like about it, but that escapes me right now ....

My understanding is that the big negative is:
if a strong wind blows up and/or the waves become high, you can end up filling the cockpit with water in a hurry. Parts of the stern typically have low freeboard and present a flat surface to oncoming waves (and the stern will be pulled downward if you have to pull hard to get the anchor up in a hurry). Apparently there have been some nasty incidents of boats filling with water after conditions suddenly worsened. This concern is probably less accute for a Mac than for some other boats eg. ones with low stern freeboard and non-self-bailing cockpits.
There are lesser concerns as well eg. anchor rode getting involved with the outboard.

Having said this, I have in past tied off the anchor to a stern cleat (I forget what the reason was, and I always anchor off the bow these days). I am interested to read Sum's comment that the boat might sail less about its anchor if stern-anchored: this would be an attractive aspect ... maybe I should try it again!

Kittiwake

Anchoring off the stern...I'm interested. I can see why we anchor at the bow...the anchors there, the anchor well is there and there is a whole lot more way for the wind to streamline its way across the bow therefore reducing the amount of pull pressure on the anchor rode etc. . Now , the question is ...which is the safer way of anchoring?
Q1

I found the bow anchor worked well for this situation

Québec 1 wrote:Anchoring off the stern...I'm interested. I can see why we anchor at the bow...the anchors there, the anchor well is there and there is a whole lot more way for the wind to streamline its way across the bow therefore reducing the amount of pull pressure on the anchor rode etc. . Now , the question is ...which is the safer way of anchoring?
Q1

I found the bow anchor worked well for this situation

Yep, don't have to worry about sailing on anchor.

Looking for a boat to possibly build I came across these...



...little guys. Some of them have been to the Bahamas over 5 times on them....

http://www.microcruising.com/more1.htm



They get back where others fear to tread. More on them here....

http://www.microcruising.com/lc1.htm

Sum

Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

I have used an anchor sail on my X for about 7 years. I hank it onto the backstay and run a line from the clew through the port side jib block and then back to secure on the port stern cleat. It cuts my swing in about half.

Bill

Kittiwake wrote: My understanding is that the big negative is:
if a strong wind blows up and/or the waves become high, you can end up filling the cockpit with water in a hurry. Parts of the stern typically have low freeboard and present a flat surface to oncoming waves (and the stern will be pulled downward if you have to pull hard to get the anchor up in a hurry). Apparently there have been some nasty incidents of boats filling with water after conditions suddenly worsened. This concern is probably less accute for a Mac than for some other boats eg. ones with low stern freeboard and non-self-bailing cockpits.
There are lesser concerns as well eg. anchor rode getting involved with the outboard.

That's a pretty big negative! That said, the Mac is self-bailing, and we sleep in the stern bunk so any water intrusion through the steering mechanism would wake us up immediately. I've definitely felt the bow dip suddenly on anchor when there's a big pull for whatever reason, and a stern anchor would make that wet. I do believe I'll keep stern anchoring as a "maybe" if they're too much dancing, or when anchored in the bays here.

I think the other major negative that I maybe remember is that the boat has a lot more windage with the stern facing the wind vs. the bow. So in a major blow you are going to be taxing the anchor's holding ability more,

Sum

Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Don't mean to change the subject but, when you beach a Mac as in the picture above, do you have to have an anchor off the stern to keep the waves from putting the boat higher on the beach as the tide comes back in? Can you back out if the wind is blowing in to shore? Or is wind blowing out the key


Thanks
Sugar Bear

You dare to question sailing dogma of 10 centuries....?????

Here are five reasons why not.

1 its just not donei Chapmans

2 Bow anchoring gives you better air flow through front hatch

3 See (1)

4 You are likley to foul the anchor line on rudders or motor with stern anchor, especially if you swing on tide/wind

5 See (1)





The Powersailors suffer from large windage and my experience has been any kind of anchor sail doesnt have enough umph to overcome the 'sailing hull' YMMV

My preferred technique is to drag a mushroom anchor off the back cleat to damp the anchor riding oscillations. This can foul on the rudders/motor as noted above (4)

Sugar Bear wrote:Don't mean to change the subject but, when you beach a Mac as in the picture above, do you have to have an anchor off the stern to keep the waves from putting the boat higher on the beach as the tide comes back in? Can you back out if the wind is blowing in to shore? Or is wind blowing out the key


Thanks
Sugar Bear

I discovered the hard way once that you should anchor astern when beaching even with no tide. Waves will inch the boat ashore and it's tough to get off. I beached the boat with the family aboard unknowingly at a nudist beach. I was aware it was nearby but did not know I was in the middle of it The corresponding large cast of characters helping us push off was very interesting!

Rob
Note: as anyone who has been to a nudist beach before knows already, it would have been nicer to see almost everyone a little more covered up...

robbarnes1965 wrote:

Sugar Bear wrote:Don't mean to change the subject but, when you beach a Mac as in the picture above, do you have to have an anchor off the stern to keep the waves from putting the boat higher on the beach as the tide comes back in? Can you back out if the wind is blowing in to shore? Or is wind blowing out the key


Thanks
Sugar Bear

I discovered the hard way once that you should anchor astern when beaching even with no tide. Waves will inch the boat ashore and it's tough to get off. I beached the boat with the family aboard unknowingly at a nudist beach. I was aware it was nearby but did not know I was in the middle of it The corresponding large cast of characters helping us push off was very interesting!

Rob
Note: as anyone who has been to a nudist beach before knows already, it would have been nicer to see almost everyone a little more covered up...

I have anchored from the stern several times. There is much less swing, almost none. What you do get is a lot of wave slap noise. The noise gets me before the waves get high enough to be a problem. I tried it after reading about the Jordan Series Drogue. It attaches at the stern and they claim there has never been a vessel lost using a Jordan Series Drogue.

I have built Anchor Sails on other boats but not on my X yet.
My other boats had the backstay at center of stearn but the Mac.X is off set to Starboard. The best for the Mac.X I came up with is to have a level foot and triangle shape with gormets on all 3 corners and a ring shank on bottom clew.
Use the topping lift attached to top clew, bottom is attached tru a bridel V shape line attached to Port and Starboard stearn railings so the sail bottom clew is center on the boat. Sail material has to be at least 7-8 oz dacron as this is not a sail and you want it flat as can be so you don't sail on the anchor. The head clew has a line that just wraps the mast and cleated.
There are times were current and wind will take the boat in the most powerful forces wins. The and I call it a (Steading Sail)will help a lot more keeping the bow to wind.
Dave

Andre Emmenegger wrote:I just tried out an anchor sail this weekend. The boat swung around as much as before. Anyone else tried an anchor sail, and what were the results?