what's the deal with unhooking the engine?

jschrade · Post by **jschrade** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:46 pm

Catigale wrote:
Speed? It's a Mac
Confucious say...if you want fast Mac....go to Apple store...

LOL!

I started sailing in some of the beer can races and I can tell you the Catalina and Morgan 30's kill me in even 5-8kt winds.

Jim

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:15 pm

NiceAft wrote:I am reading something I don't understand. It concerns lifting the motor. I have an electric lift to raise the motor when sailing, and also to lower when motoring. Is this not standard?

Ray

Ray,

Do you mean "tilt" or do you mean "lift". My motor tilts forward such that the prop is out of the water. I thought this was standard. But apparently some of our compatriots leave their motors down and connected to the steering.

To each their own.

I prefer to lift mine out of the water and disconnect from the steering for a lighter feel, no motor "flop", and less strain on my auto-pilot.

So as to the original poster...looks like you have some options. I recommend trying different methods and see what you think works best for you in your situation.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Jim

Post by **NiceAft** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:24 pm

Jim,

I did mean tilt.

I do not have any means of disconnection. I tilt the motor out, and sail. I would still like to hear from someone who knows whether or not the relief of weight on the steering mechanisms with the use of the BWY disconnect system will significantly improve your chances of not having the steering failures often seen in our posts.

Am I asking to much?

Ray

mastreb · Post by **mastreb** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:04 pm

I sail with the motor up generally, but my ETEC-60 will occasionally cause a "flop" to one side or the other due to it's weight if you're in a turn and don't have a good grip on the wheel, and for that reason lately I've been sailing motor down and using it as an extra rudder, which on the Mac you apparently can't have enough of. I seem to get better heading keeping and pointing with the motor down. It's inertia when down helps keep the boat on track if you let go of the wheel, which is a total no-no when it's up because it will immediately flop over. Down does seem to reduce speed by about a half-knot.

I'm pretty unsatisfied with the steering mechanism in the

over all. The helm makes half the cockpit useless, people are always bumping the throttle when they move around the boat, the mechanism is sloppy at every point, and while integrating the rudders and outboard makes logical sense, in practical point of fact it makes both steering systems a little more difficult to deal with. First time anything goes wrong I'm planning to rip it all out and replace it with a hydraulic system with a valve mechanism so I can bypass and isolate the outboard.

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:05 pm

NiceAft wrote:Jim,

I did mean tilt.

I do not have any means of disconnection. I tilt the motor out, and sail. I would still like to hear from someone who knows whether or not the relief of weight on the steering mechanisms with the use of the BWY disconnect system will significantly improve your chances of not having the steering failures often seen in our posts.

Am I asking to much?

Ray

So the stock

does not come with any disconnect? I thought mine was stock but maybe my PO installed it. I have seen one similar to it so I thought it was stock.

I don't know if you could say it will "significantly" improve your chances but it can't hurt. Having had one steering failure and paying good $$$ for my autopilot I don't want to strain either one by turning the weight of the motor when tilted out of the water. So I disconnect almost all the time.

It takes me 16.39 seconds to lower the motor. Another 7.34 to start the motor. Then I can motor out of any "situation" that I might need to motor out of...with the motor disconnected and locked at max speed of 6 knots.

If I want to motor faster it takes me about 42.11 seconds to reconnect my motor to the steering bar...another 16.39 seconds to raise the rudders (yes it is the same amount of time as it takes to lower the motor...just a coincidence...but I did time it)...another 5.30 seconds to raise the dagger board...and away I go...

Think it will be a little quicker and easier with the new BWY disconnect system...at least I hope so. Plus I hopefully will get rid of the irritating steering linkage interference and the "rub marks" my current steering bar makes in the fiberglass back there.

Cheers,
Jim

Cheers,
Jim

Fxwg80hd · Post by **Fxwg80hd** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:23 pm

c130king wrote: So the stock does not come with any disconnect? I thought mine was stock but maybe my PO installed it. I have seen one similar to it so I thought it was stock.

Jim - I think the disconnect is an option installed by the dealer in most cases, which is why the setup differs from boat to boat depending on which dealer installed it (or possibly owner installed). Another difference is the motor on the Mac. I have seen that the steering connections do differ slightly based on the MFG of the motor. I will post pictures of mine on Saturday.

I also disconnect mine for ease of steering. The first year I own the Mac, I left the motor connected all the time. By the second year I was disconnecting the motor after raising the sails. With the motor locked in position, I can still tilt down, fire and go at hull speed in a couple of seconds. Can't think of any reason I would ever need to go from sailing to WOT in a couple of seconds, so the ease of steering out weighs the couple seconds needed to connect or disconnect the motor.

Chris

jschrade · Post by **jschrade** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:26 pm

don't think the disconnect system is a "standard" item and believe you have to pay a little extra for it - well worth it.

Jim

Post by **Russ** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:49 pm

raycarlson wrote:im not a highly technical sailor, on my M i leave the motor fully down and always connected,i have found no reason or increase in performance to justify the hassle of disconnecting and raising the motor.

Speed? Yes. dragging that foot slows you down.

For us, the third rudder messes up steering. The admiral was at the helm and trying to point. She was getting very frustrated. I looked down and the motor was in the drink so I tilted it up. Suddenly our boat started sailing well. She said, "Wow, now I can steer."

We have the BWY linkage. LOVE it. Wouldn't do without it. Quick and simple. Why not unhook your motor and tilt the bad boy while sailing? Like I said, we unhook it from steerage once clear of the marina as rudders give enough steering. We don't motorboat that much so this works well.

Post by **NiceAft** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:40 am

There is a situation which I occasionally get into, and I would like to hear from those who have a disconnect system, how well they would be able to manage it

There are times, do to very low winds, that I can't get through a tack, and because of being on a narrow river, I can't just fall off because a power boat is now coming at me. Would a disconnect system allow me to power up quickly and turn

Does the locked motor only allow you to go straight ahead

Will the rudders overpower the locked engine and turn the boat:?:

Ray

Fxwg80hd · Post by **Fxwg80hd** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:27 am

Ray

When the motor is disconnected from the steering, it is connected to a shaft that keeps it locked in the straight ahead position. In this position, when you run the motor it will power the boat ahead forcing the water past the rudders causing the boat to turn. Remember, while the rudders are down they will do all the steering. You do not need the motor to turn while the rudders are down, as long as the motor is fixed in a straight ahead position (does not even have to be perfectly straight, as long as it is close). There are plenty of sailboats out there that have fixed motors and use the rudder to turn.

Having the motor hooked to the steering will increase your steering capability by a little bit at really slow speeds. Mostly only needed for docking, but even then you can dock without the motor connected.

Give it a try one day before you raise the sails. Just get to an area where you feel safe, disconnect the motor and hook it to the pin that will keep it straight. Then, with the rudders down, motor around a bit to get the feel of how it handles. This is the way I motor sail when there really is not enough wind out.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:06 am

Ray..at 5-6 knots you rudders will work well with the engine locked straight. At half this speed, they won't work very well...at idle speed and docking, hardly at all.

Based on my experience with the

Fxwg80hd · Post by **Fxwg80hd** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:26 am

Jim:

Here are some pictures of my disconnect setup on my

and a Honda 50.

Chris

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:38 am

Chris,

Thanks for the pics.

My issues:

1) In the first picture the head of that horizontal bolt in the steering arm will "catch" on the vertical connection between the two linkage arms that are connected to the motor. This will keep the arm from coming all the way out (during a turn to port) and then sometimes it will get past this vertical connection but then get caught on it when coming back. Not a huge problem but it is an irritant.

2) In the second pic where you have the linkages connected to the steering arm...on my boat that linkage "rubs" on the fiberglass...I think my steering arm is bent a little...and this rubbing is cutting a groove in the fiberglass.

I will try to remember to take some pics next time I get back to my marina.

Cheers,
Jim

parrothead · Post by **parrothead** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:19 am

We have an

, not an

, but I believe that the merits of having the motor disconnected and locked in place while sailing should apply to either version.

I was originally a skeptic -- for our first four seasons I kept the motor connected to the steering linkage at all times, although I did consistently tilt it up while sailing - the difference in motion [I won't call it speed

] being easily measurable on GPS.

Then I installed the BWY quick-disconnect [which avoids the problems noted by Jim, above, regarding the "flat" linkage]. What an improvement!! The steering effort is so light; a puff that induces some sudden heel no longer pulls on the wheel; when you get the boat balanced on a heading, it's hardly necessary to hold the wheel at all.

Similar benefits apply to motoring [not docking] at hull speed with the rudders down, especially in a following sea or crossing a wake. The roll of the hull from side to side does not result in the motor pulling on the steering, so there's no need for course correction - the boat rolls on its longitudinal axis, but keeps going straight.

In answer to the concerns about getting quickly under power if needed to assist with tacking or another concern - all you have to do is tilt the motor down and start it. The centered engine thrust is exactly what you'd get with any conventional inboard auxiliary - and the Mac gives you two rudders for directional control instead of one.

In our case, the only time when we have the engine connected to the steering is in our marina and its approach channel. Docking at our slip requires the execution of a 180 degree turn, since we back in - at which point the prevailing wind is on our beam. For that maneuver, what we want is both rudders up and steering control via motor only. With either one or two rudders down, the boat will only turn as sharply as the maximum angle of rudder offset allows. With both rudders up, and 50% daggerboard down, we are able to back up while using quick opposite-lock forward bursts from the motor to "kick" the stern around as required. It is possible to spin the boat in little more than its own length, if necessary.

In sum - you need to steer with the motor for docking maneuvers and [obviously] when motoring above 6 mph -- otherwise, steer with the rudders.

Fxwg80hd · Post by **Fxwg80hd** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:47 am

c130king wrote:Chris,

Thanks for the pics.

My issues:

1) In the first picture the head of that horizontal bolt in the steering arm will "catch" on the vertical connection between the two linkage arms that are connected to the motor. This will keep the arm from coming all the way out (during a turn to port) and then sometimes it will get past this vertical connection but then get caught on it when coming back. Not a huge problem but it is an irritant.

2) In the second pic where you have the linkages connected to the steering arm...on my boat that linkage "rubs" on the fiberglass...I think my steering arm is bent a little...and this rubbing is cutting a groove in the fiberglass.

I will try to remember to take some pics next time I get back to my marina.

Cheers,
Jim

Jim:

You're right, I had never noticed that the linkage hit before, but will only hit when the motor is down.

When tilted up it will not come close to hitting.

I also noticed that once I have tilted the motor up, then lower it back down, the bracket linkage is pushed back as a result and the steering linkage does not hit. Guess that is why I have not noticed the problem before.

I see it is only the threads of the bolt seem to hit. Think I will cut those threads off.

Chris

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