Great Memorial Day Sailing...until the mast came down

[Berber Boy]

Thanks ALX357. I will give it a try. I already have raised my Furler to a second hound which apart from the advantages you mention also stops it chafing on the side pulpit rail and safety lines. Third one coming up me thinks! What kind of line did you use to carry the load?
BB

Yup, that works .....

I attached a couple of higher hounds to the mast, now have three. The original lower hound is only used for a dedicated mast raising/lowering line, the middle hound is for the furler alone, and the upper highest one for the furler sock when the Genoa is furled for any length of time, and for a second or back-up forestay, which is attached to a s.s. eye bolted to the pulpit, to resist the mast falling backwards.

The higher Genoa not only lessens the length when stowed against the lowered mast, but it provides better visibility, great visibility, complete visibility forward, and it allows the lifelines to be moved from the bottom of the pulpit to the top edge, via some clamp-on s.s eyes.

............
As a matter of interest, has anyone thought about adding an extra hound high on the mast and connecting a safety wire or Spectraspeed line there and down to the pulpit as a fallback safety mechanism. Even with a furler it should give ample clearance I would have thought? Have been thinking about doing it anway so I can attach my furler up higher and avoid the overhang when towing at the front end. Would appreciate anyones experience with that kind of mod?

BB

[ALX357]

Amsteel Dyneema, I think it is called, -- very strong and abrasion resistant, low stretch and lightweight formula, and even in thinner gauge, strong enough. I'm also saving up my dough for a CB line of this stuff.

[ALX357]

Now that I am reminded of this mod, seeing the picture again, I need to correct my description ....

I started with moving the original forestay hound point up, a few inches higher than the sidestays, and then the other two are above that.

[bscott]

By design the CDI does not have forestay redundancy found in furlers like the Schaefer Snap furl or the Harken 00 each of which has a conventional jib halyard. Raising the furler drum and the mast hound higher will raise the center of effort--CE--and add weight aloft which will induce more healing.

Ring dings are a PIA for a reason

I would cut the mast and not worry about the loss of mast height as you can reposition the boom goose neck if necessary.

Bob

[ALX357]

As mentioned before, the slight increase in heeling tendency can be countered by sail trim, and the 150 Genoa can be sheeted closer since it is higher against the upper shrouds where they are closer to the mast.
The visibility factor with a 150 Genoa is well worth the extra height.

Cut the mast ? Sure you can reposition the boom (lower) ..... so it sweeps heads in the cockpit ..... If you cut it at the top, then the luff rope slot opening is not located right, and can't be made so. Cut the bottom, then you have to reposition the halyard turning blocks, etc.
Cut the mast -- What for ?

[bscott]

Wasn't the lower 1" of the mast damaged? But you are right--I'm not sure how I was thinking, no need to lower the boom Raise the boom 1"is more like it.
Cutting the mast 1" probably won't effect the performance of the There might be enough height left on the 1" shorter mast to raise the sail to full height, if not maybe a sailmaker can install a new cringle in the main tack to shorten the main luff 1". Probably have to raise the mast hound/spreaders, Still cheaper and faster than ordering a new mast.

If visability is an issue, I'd sew a window into the sail and shorten the spreaders by 4" ea. before putting all that extra weight higher up on the mast.

Bob

[c130king]

Bob,

If Tony (who I just got an email from...I think he will post his thoughts here soon) cuts the bottom 1" off his mast it will have no effect on his main sail. His boom will sit 1" closer to the deck but the distance between the gooseneck and the top of the mast will not change. No change necessary to his main. No need to move his gooseneck. Possibly increased interference with his bimini since his boom will sit 1" lower...but he is still trying to figure out how to use his bimini...don't want to "pile on" my good friend Tony but he did have his bimini on "backwards" and didn't know it...

We already checked and he has plenty of adjustment room on his side stay adjusters so he can tighten them up with no problems. He has the nice Shaeffer furler and I didn't see much room for height adjustment so he may need to raise his mast hound a little higher.

Who has the math smarts...if you cut 1" off the bottom of the mast how much higher do you need to raise the hound? Is there any complicated trigonometry here or is it as simple as it seems...just raise the hound 1"?

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König Website
Sailing on König YouTube Channel

[bscott]

I had to raise my hound when I installed my Schaefer--my wife is a math wiz and tried to figure how much to rise it but in the end I clamped the hound where we calculated the location to be but found we had to move the spot a few times because we could not calculate the cabin height. I set the mast rake at 90* with final turn buckle adjustment @ 92*. My "clamping guess" would be 3/4" but if he installed a heavier turn buckle, there might be enough adjustment left to be OK as is.

Tony should buy a lottery ticket--he's one lucky guy

Bob

[c130king]

In my mind's eye...which frequently needs a strong prescription...

If you picture the deck, the mast, the hound, and the forestay floating in space but in their relative positions. Cut 1" off the bottom of the mast...now imagine the mast sliding down through the hound so that it is once again flush with the deck. It would come down 1" and the mast hound would be 1" higher than where it was before. My mind's eye never took HS trig...I don't think trip applies in this situation. Cut 1" off the bottom of the mast then raise the hound by 1" and everything should work fine...except the mast will be 29' 11" versus 30' high.

Jim

[TFlight]

Well I see a lot of you have heard about my exciting Memorial Day of sailing. I was lucky and fortunate and thanks goes out to Jim & DJ for the help. One of the things that saved me and gave me a little extra time to react was a mod I had done just the week before. Although it didn't work exactly as planed it did prevent the mast from coming straight back over the cockpit and console. I Tig welded a piece of steel to extend the tongue on the rotating base plate and inserted a pin across it when the mast was up. This worked in my test with the mast hoist but I didn't have the added pressure of a full sail at the time. I also believe a better backup would be a line from the mast to the bow area. In any case it still helped I think. The mast didn't fall all at once but hesitated and came down at a moderate speed off to starboard side. Now of course not to over look the real problem which was the bow pin.

I have a few pic but not sure how to attach them yet. Back to wk for now

I came up with a few theories as to what happened to the Bow Pin:

1. Least likely, the cotter pin broke. It was stronger then the rung-ding.
2. Less likely,The head of the pin broke. I had a pin with a small head and had a stainless steel washer welded onto the head of it. Although done by a professional welder the head of the pin could have weakened from the heat.
3. Possible but not likely, I didn't install the cotter pin. I hold the pin and key in my mouth prior to installation and I don't remember crapping any cotter pins. I also think it would have come down sooner had I not unsalted it at all.
4. Most likely, the cotter pin backed out. This could happen many ways when using this type of pin, I don't recommend using. It could have got caught on a sheet, a mooring line, anchor rode, or quite likely a shoe pushed it out while working around the pulpit or securing a line to a cleat.
The bottom line is don't use a cotter pin where a ring-ding should be used. I did order a bow pin from BWY and an extra one ($5 ea) . They have a larger head, about the size of a quarter, a longer shaft, and a less slippery ring-ding to handle.
I think I'm going to add a shroud strap to the upper mast and run a line or cable down to I guess the pulpit rail, but I'm not sure how strong that is. The lady at BWY sales tells me that's over kill. Just use the right bow pin & I wont have any problem, call me gun shy. She also says to replace the rail it has to ship by truck & it's over $200. Better then a mast on the head.

Repair:
I think I can cut an inch off the bottom and make it flush. Then shorten and adjust the tension on the upper and lower stays and figure out if I can shorten the roller furling jib.
If anyone has their trigonometry book hand and wants to send me the formula for how much shorter I need to make the stays that would be great. I think it's about an inch I need to cut off the bottom of the mast.
Then the jib I think I can shorten the cable or raise the hound. I'm looking for feed back on that.
As I was washing the salt water off my sails I found a small hole the size of a pencil. Any suggestions on how to repair that? There must be a simple sewing kit available.

Parts:
Mast Base Hinge Plate $51
Mast Base Bottom $36 (ever so slightly bent but replacing anyway)
Bow Pin $5
Shackle Twist pin $5 (used on Boom Vang)
Bow Light $22 (can't just get the lens)

The right Bow Pin PRICELESS!

[Hamin' X]

I agree with cutting the mast off at the bottom. But, instead of making all of the adjustments for a shorter mast, why not make a 1" spacer plate to go on top of the hinge plate?

Glad that the damage was not more serious and that no one got hurt.

~Rich

[frede]

...As I was washing the salt water off my sails I found a small hole the size of a pencil. Any suggestions on how to repair that? There must be a simple sewing kit available...

A small piece of Sail Tape should fix that right up Should be in everyone's emergency repair kit
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... SearchView

[Fxwg80hd]

Tony - Just looking at the picture again, but have you thought about having a sleeve welded to the bottom of the mast so you can use the original bolt hole location again? Would save you having to cut the mast, raise the forestay, and raise or adjust the side stays.

If welding will weaken the mast, then maybe have a sleeve made that can be riveted or bolted on and still allow you to use the original base plate bolt hole location on the mast.

[Russ]

I had a pin with a small head and had a stainless steel washer welded onto the head of it. Although done by a professional welder the head of the pin could have weakened from the heat.

4. Most likely, the cotter pin backed out. This could happen many ways when using this type of pin, I don't recommend using. It could have got caught on a sheet, a mooring line, anchor rode, or quite likely a shoe pushed it out while working around the pulpit or securing a line to a cleat.

Yup. That's my guess.

By adding a washer to the pin, you gave it an even greater odds of getting caught on something and pulled off.

Sorry for your mishap, but a great lesson for us all. NEVER use one of those types of pins. It must be secure tight. Even the ring dings make me worried. I'm thinking of using a proper cotter pin and bending it and replacing it each time with a new one. Not very expensive.

[Matt19020]

I posted this years ago when my mast came down........Just my opinion.....

I SUGGEST THIS MOD FOR EVERYONE....

Mast hound should be as hgh on the mast as possible and turnbuckle is on the port side of anchor roller. In this location there is no interference to the furling jib and the Mod was less then $100, including swagging tool from http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware.htm This now gives me some piece of mind with a redundant forestay