MacGregorSailors.com

210 doesn't seem low for a 26D from what I've heard. I've heard of X'ers getting 235 so I would have thought a D would have been in the 170-190 range. Doesn't it vary by each locale also? Ie, if you are a good sailor and start winning a lot of races in your boat, your handicap goes down...like golf.

I understand if raceings not in the cards for you but don't rule it out. You can learn so much. I have used so many things that I learned from raceing on my boat.

I know about raceing slow try a Cal-20 PHRF I think of 280. In Wed. night races almost always last in. Every one was finished with dinner by the time we got in. But you know it's nice on corrected time when you beat a bunch of J-boats

The PHRF of 210 is low for 2 or 3 people. What if you have 3,4 or even 5 on the rail like a 26' race boat. I crewed on a J-24 last summer a few times. If the winds were over about 8 with only 3 of us we could not point & would get killed by boats with 4 & 5 people. That's why we are going to use the Cal-20 this summer. Light boats must have rail meat! To race PHRF.

I have not raced my boat yet but I will. I am still learning. One-design is theway only way to go.

Oh well Just my two cents

Sam

210 doesn't seem low for a 26D from what I've heard. I've heard of X'ers getting 235 so I would have thought a D would have been in the 170-190 range. Doesn't it vary by each locale also? Ie, if you are a good sailor and start winning a lot of races in your boat, your handicap goes down...like golf.

I guess this is what I dont get about PHRF numbers. If its a 'boat' rating then it shouldnt change with locale, should it?

When I go up on Ontario and I get a chance to sail in unobstructed waters its fun to go on a course like WIlson NY and see how well I can move around it in my Winnebago. I dont think watching a bunch of 32-40 footers from the rear, and then coming in an hour later to gloat over by score less 240 per mile would mean anything to me or them.

Of course, per Moe, I might still beat them in the most important race

I have only been sailing for 3 years and racing for 2 but this is how our club sets the phrf on the boats in our club. The phrf chairman reviews the phrf set through several clubs then the chairman removes the lowest then the highest phrf rating and then adverages the remaining. So far in our club no one boat has been rasied due to them constantly sailing above the posted phrf. But the phrf committie can also raise the rating to even the playing field if they so choose. This should be based on the overall windconditions. Someone can correct me if i'm wrong.

We've raced our Mac 25 quite a bit. On our local fleet we used Portsmouth numbers. I've always thought that using Portsmouth which can take into account wind speed for the handicap was in principle a better system than the way I see PHRF used. We had about the same handicap as a Crysler 26 and Catalina 25 and quite often beat both. On Lake of the Woods LOWISA they gave us a 249 PHRF which seemed about right. For our size we were a little on the slow side but did alright. The LOWISA is a week long event with a race each day. There are a lot of islands so smart course decisions can make a big difference. Now that we have our 26M I'm not sure how well we'll do in the races but hopefully we'll be more comfortable. I'm not sure about the legality of dumping ballast during the race. If this is allowed it may make things more interesting.

In no doubt due to the drowning of the two children on the unballasted X, the safety page for the M specifies that unballasted operation is for not only sails down, but "all sails removed, engine power only."

That same page has safety warnings for the X at the bottom, and the tone for unballasted operation with it has certainly changed: "Always, before sailing the boat, remove the 1" diameter vent plug located under the rear end of the forward V berth, and make sure that the water level is no more than 3" below the hole from which the plug was removed. Then reinstall the plug. If you have to sail the boat without ballast, do not cleat down any sail control line.

That's not quite the same as the "If the 1400 lbs of water ballast is drained, the boat becomes an even faster sailboat...For protected waters or when sailing near shore, the added speed can make for fun." in the brochure that Frank M used to convince officials to let him do that and get his bluewater-racer 135 PHRF.

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Moe

Moe wrote:In no doubt due to the drowning of the two children on the unballasted X, the safety page for the M specifies that unballasted operation is for not only sails down, but "all sails removed, engine power only."

That same page has safety warnings for the X at the bottom, and the tone for unballasted operation with it has certainly changed: "Always, before sailing the boat, remove the 1" diameter vent plug located under the rear end of the forward V berth, and make sure that the water level is no more than 3" below the hole from which the plug was removed. Then reinstall the plug. If you have to sail the boat without ballast, do not cleat down any sail control line.

That's not quite the same as the "If the 1400 lbs of water ballast is drained, the boat becomes an even faster sailboat...For protected waters or when sailing near shore, the added speed can make for fun." in the brochure that Frank M used to convince officials to let him do that and get his bluewater-racer 135 PHRF.

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Moe

Very good point i made the mistake the first time out of not filling the ballast and the boat is nearly uncontrollable. I acts the same way as a bobbler on top of the water. Now i don't close the drain when I put the boat on the trailor so i wont make that mistake again.

Sailing always requires ballast in my opinion, but we have cruised under power for hundreds and hundreds of miles with no ballast. We have been in some very rough conditions, and have never had threatening behavior or control problems. Don't be shy about motoring with empty ballast, it is how the boat is designed to be used.

Of the 1152 Nautical miles of water that have passed under our boats keel over the last 4 years easily 1000+ miles have (the sailor in me is sad to say) been under power and 99% of that is without ballast.

DavidB,

I wrote a long reply but my browser dropped the connection and I lost it before I could post it.

I have raced my X every year. I have raced on the Great Salt Lake, Lake Mead and San Diego Bay. Have more fun competing in one design and without meaning to brag my X has only been beaten by 1 other X.

Since I enjoy racing I have considered buying a D but rather than own 2 boats I am looking for a partner to buy the D and then team race it.

Newell
Fast Sunday 96X

Newell wrote:DavidB,

I wrote a long reply but my browser dropped the connection and I lost it before I could post it.

I have raced my X every year. I have raced on the Great Salt Lake, Lake Mead and San Diego Bay. Have more fun competing in one design and without meaning to brag my X has only been beaten by 1 other X.

Since I enjoy racing I have considered buying a D but rather than own 2 boats I am looking for a partner to buy the D and then team race it.

Newell
Fast Sunday 96X

If you buy a D consider replacing the rudder if it still has the stock rudder.

This is a neat site but everyone probally has ran across it. It gives a general idea on how different boats stack up agnist each other.

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

When composing a long reply, I use Notepad, and periodically save my work. I set it to "word wrap" when composing, but make sure to turn "word wrap" off before copying and pasting into the forum message box. Not doing so can result in line breaks where you don't want them. This will prevent loss of your work.
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Moe