MacGregorSailors.com

In normal use, the same forces will be exerted on mine and everyone else's as on yours, and mine for one hasn't broken. So instead of using your single anecdote without any additional information to conclude that the design is defective and all Mac Ms (and Xs, since it appears we have the same system) have crap for steering, I'm going to be devil's advocate in the other direction, and conclude that yours broke because you were abusing it.

My conclusion may be absolutely wrong. The reasoning is equally unsound for either conclusion.

You stated before, as quoted by Moe, that your steering was very stiff.
That should have been your first warning. I don't care how big your motor is, that is not right, and you should have taken the hint, and steps to correct it.

Instead, it appears you simply kept using it until it broke.

Steve M wrote: . . . Stripped my Steering rack and pinion on my M

This rack is . . . ok for a little 16' boat but not for a 26' with a 70hp motor. I am still shaking my head in disbelief.

Sorry Steve, but I'll need to disagree too. The factory rack/pinion on my 2000 26X, delivered in August '99, has smoothly & quietly steered my Suzuki 60/70 for five years w/ fingertip ease. If yours was as hard to steer as you described, your motor or steering installation was faulty.

I posted several months ago about how my rack unit almost came apart one day in near SCA conditions (one missing bolt and three loose ones). If I had gone out one or two more times instead of fixing it right away, it would have stripped for sure, that was because it was coming apart and the pinion was not getting the necessary depth penetration on the rack gear.

if any thing, it should be over designed, with the "weakest link" placed where it can be by passed on the water.

Steve, couldn't you pull the ring ding off of the pin on the motor where the steering shaft connects to? Seems to me if you did that, you would disengage the motor from the broken steering and be able to steer slowly by hand or with a boat hook lashed to the motor as an emergency tiller.

I too have have suffered a couple of steering failures with my 26 X,, broad reach, winds <15 kts, regular lube program on steering gear.

in the middle of tacking..

So, without a detailed finite element analysis on the steering gear box...I note the following, it is sized as a system, If you are going to upgrade to larger than 50 hp, increase the steering gear to something suitable for a 115 to 150 hp ooutboard, reinforce where it passes through the hull wall, reinforce the transom, and brackets. and the system should work fine. if you havent looked, the bolts that hod the steering tube to the steering box are only 1/4 " bolts...... look at the rest of the steering gear... everything larger than 1/4 " bolts, and a lot more than 2 of them. Replacing an engine is not a single aspect task... it affects other elements of the boat.
having had 2 steering failures in less than 6 months, I will not upgrade the engine until I have designe a transom/steering reinforcement upgrade...

Lets see, anyone else interested in doing this right???

should we look at both internal and external bolt on solutions??/
any preferences??

good luck,

and yes,

it is light steering when motoring, but the tilted engine does bind some, even with all of the adjustment ability of the quick release attachments, They are not on the same plane as the rudder bar, so at least on the 96 I have, one must always be careful, or move the engine connection to the rudder bar up into the same plane as the swing of the rudder bar. or disconnect the engine

As far as the weakest link tho... I have to give roger some crdit on this one, I would much rather have the gear break on the pedastal than where I have to fight something out over the water.....especially in rough seas.. it is easy enough to drop tethered tools in the drink let alone loose parts......

and as far as being able to analyze the problem. it is difficutl to fix, time consuming..... ( I guess I really want that slick internally reinforced transom/rudder/engine solution, so that none of you can see how I fixed the problems, as I motor by at 25 kts. hehehehe.)

Seriously, this is an issue for all mac owners, I cant believe that I am the only one looking at a detailed internal reinforcement.... c'mon people. who has done it right???

Just a quick link to the steering system poll I started yesterday:


http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1542

By the way, my solution was to install an inside redundant helm as backup. It is posted in the mods section.
Of course, that only guaranteed that the orignal unit will never fail.

Ok, one more time.
The tooth on the rack sheared away and got stuck on the rack between two teeth so that there was "0" steering either way! There was NO warning. It just snapped. I tried to devise a tiller system with my boat hook but that did not work. Tow Boat US did work.
Contrary to Chips opinion. I insist that this should never hapen on a sail boat or any other boat were the lives of people are at danger.OVER DESIGN . If it can hapen, it will and it did. If the system is good for a 50 hp weight it should be good for more than double the weight. I have over 40 year in machine design and hope that I know what I am talking about.
The rack and pinion on the M sucks.

One more thing since I am on a roll.
My dealer Inmon Yachts in LA is the best! He will replace the system free of charge. In the past he upgraded my boat, again, free of charge. Mike and his son Jeff are great to deal with no matter what part of the country you'r in.

It doesn't matter what a dealer, no matter how good and well reputable says or writes, even when signed. A dealer cannot give a full factory warranty. Only the factory can. And if the factory (MacGregor) doesn't warrant anyting for over 50HP than that's that. A dealer may externd his own warranty for whatever they install outside of what MacGregor warrants - and they may be very good in that and very honorable in what they cover but, no other dealer will be obligated (and they would be foolish as in doing it on their own budget) to honor that. That makes it a dealer warranty that most likely will be honored only at that dealer and nowhere else (e/g. not at your vacation spot 2000 Miles away from your dealer...) Nobody should call that a full warranty in my mind. Very misleading. MacGregor is very clear in what they cover and what not. Dealers in my mind can only speak for themselves, not for MacGregor.
Kudos to Bill at Boat for Sails for not playing that game and for sticking to his guns.

Now, Bill, do you have customers who had a larger OB installed against your advice - on their own risk and if so, do you service those (other than for HP/OB-weight-related hull issues)? If so, isn't that very tricky - I mean, when is a crack anywhere pronounced to be not OB-related and when is it OB-related...?

Ralf

Ralf wrote: . . . That makes it a dealer warranty that most likely will be honored only at that dealer and nowhere else (e/g. not at your vacation spot 2000 Miles away from your dealer...) Nobody should call that a full warranty in my mind. . . . I mean, when is a crack anywhere pronounced to be not OB-related and when is it OB-related...?

I doubt that the "factory warranty" has any applicability at your vacation spot either. The dealer warranty of a 70hp motor can easily be a private negotiation between the dealer and Macgregor. And I don't really see any significant risk of that slight upsizing - even after five years & hundreds of hours.

With (probably) 100 installed so far, it's clear that those 20 more hp have not diminished hull performance, given a knowledgeable installation. If a hull DID show a manufacturing defect, I would expect that Macgregor would support their installing dealer, yet still avoid any direct factory liablility. In fact, I bought one that way when only a half-dozen had been installed.

Given a quality installation, the factory is not concerned for a 70hp motor at 350# on the 1999+ transom or hull. But look, why should they, or would they, expand their stated warranty coverage - certainly not because a 70hp Hunter or Catalina is out-performing them in the market, eh?

Frank C wrote:
"Given a quality installation, the factory is not concerned for a 70hp motor at 350# on the 1999+ transom or hull. "

Frank, I cannot find any statement from the factory anywhere that supports this. If you have something in writing from the factory (not the dealer), could you post it?

Wy would the factory warranty be void at my vacation location?

Ralf wrote: . . . That makes it a dealer warranty that most likely will be honored only at that dealer and nowhere else (e/g. not at your vacation spot 2000 Miles away from your dealer...) Nobody should call that a full warranty in my mind. Very misleading . . . .

Rolf,
My point was that the full factory warranty is implemented through the selling dealer, and I'm sure you will find that in the documentation. Whether you're 2000 miles from home is immaterial, your original dealer is your only access to redressing a warranty problem. Therefore, factory OR dealer warranty reside in the same hands, just different pockets. Hope that helps clear up my comments.

I believe the hulls are clearly capable of performing acceptably with the 70 hp @ 350# with my own and many others as examples. However, the essense of this discussion is that Macgregor has zero effective competition. As such, there's absolutely no reason or benefit to Macgregor's changing their warranty statements. If one's especially concerned about the transom design, then live by the letter of the factory's statements. If one's focus is more on all-around performance and utility, then ask the dealer if he will warrant a larger installation, and enjoy.