MacGregorSailors.com

rwmiller56 wrote:So is this now the 2nd documented capsize of a Mac due to no ballast? (The first one being an overloaded boat in NY, that resulted in loss of life).

At least the third Capsize resulting in Death. Here in Lake Erie, at least 10 years ago. 26X motoring without Ballast. 5 adults and 1 teenager. the Lake Erie chop was building to 5`. as the 26X was approaching its Ohio Harbour entrance it was capsized by a big wave. 2 adults drowned.

I also recall a Capsize on the West Coast also about 10 years ago.???

Just before the end of the clip, you can see that the front hatch is open.

~Rich

I don't even approach knockdown at 45 knots. I don't think an-unballasted boat would capsize in 10... unless somebody screwed up. All kinds of boats meet their doom all the time. Sometimes due to the sea, sometimes due to inexperience or incompetence of the skipper/crew. You can take a multi-million Dollar VO70 racer and put her in the wrong hands and have disasterous results. This is no statement on the Mac, or any other boat for that matter. Several months ago, a J24 capsized between the Farallone Islands and the Golden Gate. It was unclear why, but word has it the keel attachment failed and the boat turtled. The two-man crew was miraculously rescewed just before hypothermia set in. Maybe SA should start ripping J24s.?? I guess even the best yachts can have failures, sometimes catastrophic ones. Macs certainly have their shortcomings and quality issues but it seems they have pretty good record of holding up, even in storm conditions.

Leon

The coast guard website just says that the boat overturned with 4 occupants. Rescue units were dispatched from the Castle Hill Station in Newport and that also a unit responded from the Cranston fire Dept. There were 3 still on the boat and one woman in the water. She was rescued and taken to shore and that the other 3 remained behind to help right the boat. Doesn't mention any details of why she went over. The people on the scene had plenty of experience.

Given that water ballast unlike lead shot is isodense I think it would be difficult to determine from photos whether the ballast tanks were full or not. (ie since the boat is ballasted with water once that part is under water it will not sink further)

There may have been some water in the tank. If the tank is half full and the boat is swamped the water would just layer out and not do anything to right the boat. If the boat was not swamped it probably would have some effect though suboptimal. There are two things that make me think that boat was unballasted. One was that it went over at all in calm weather. The second is that it was difficult to right once the crews arrived to help.

I've thought about this with the 26s. If one were to forget to fill the ballast tank not only would the boat capsize easier. When most of the boat is under water the air filled ballast tank will try to float keeping the boat on its side or even overturning it completely.

Maybe one reason they had trouble righting the boat was that they needed to open the ballast tank and let it fill with water.

Mike

PS if this works the way I think it would when they tried to right to boat it would just roll back over. It may have been a problem that neither the Coast Guard nor the owner understood.

Hey Everyone,

I really hope the owner comes forward and relays the conditions of the boat. As I stated previous, I was out on my first sail ever on my X with a buddy who is no sailing genius either. We were less than a mile from where the Mac capsized and the conditions were very light. The waves were less than a foot, and the breeze, when there was one, only got us to just under 5 knots once, and we had to hunt around for that. I'm a little concerned because we never felt, even in the breeze, that we were in any danger of getting knocked down. I would love to have all the facts brought forward so as a new owner I can learn and correct anything I may be doing that is unsafe. So, if anyone knows the owner or can find him, please ask him to come share with us so we can take the necessary steps to prevent this from happening to another boat. Our faces were mostly like this all day until we got in and saw the news I was wanting to try one more sail, but being so new, I think I will rethink that until I get more info...heck, my sails saw their first daylight Sunday in 8 years...would hate to dump them in the bay...

I bought my boat in April and sailed all summer on Lake Erie. Never had any kind of boat before. At first I felt a little uncomfortable about possibility of being knocked down. I went many times in 4’ – 6’ chop and 25 kts winds which is very typical for Lake Erie with 100% jib and reefed stock main. And it felt great. I believe that something has to go seriously wrong for the boat to get knocked down in such conditions. Something like hitting the rocks or something has to break or fail if the water ballast was full.

BJ,

Like you, I'd like to hear the details. I did want to reassure you after sailing Narragansett Bay for 10 years in a Mac 26×. I single handed in winds up to 25 kts. and never felt the boat couldn't handle it. Keep your balast full, reef when you think you need to, wear a PFD. You'll be fine and have plenty more of these:

Charlie

Here is news footage from Channel 12 in Providence. No real additional details.

http://www.youtube.com/?v=_IKAG-X4YOE

From the Providence Journal:

CRANSTON — A 22-foot sailboat with four people aboard overturned in the Providence River early Sunday afternoon but fortunately the warm sunny weather caused several boaters to be on the water at the same time and they rushed to help.

The Coast Guard launched a rescue vessel from the Castle Hill Station in Newport. The state Department of Environmental Management deployed a vessel and the Cranston Fire Department also sent a rescue. Also, according to Coast Guard Lt. Chris Harold, “There were numerous good Samaritans on the scene.” One person was taken ashore near the Rhode Island Yacht Club to be checked for hypothermia, Lt. Harold said. But the other three remained offshore to right their vessel and sail it back to port. No one was injured.

Ok, I wasn't wearing my pfd, I will be going to West to get a couple self inflaters today- I will implement wear at all times, just makes sense at this point...I will also practice reefing the main before I go out again..never did practice that. Thanks for the reassurance and I will change my habits a bit to be a little more safety conscience and hopefully keep getting better at sailing. Being an old windsurfer, I gotta say, this is a totally different beast...I have a TON to learn!!!!

A small rigging malfunction ,
A gust of wind ,
And a moment of inattention
With a bit of BAD LUCK


can put anyone in a bad place in a few seconds!...................Ask me

A small rigging malfunction ,
A gust of wind ,
And a moment of inattention
WITHOUT THE BAD LUCK

can be of no consequence .......................Ask me again
Q1

a 22 ft. powerboat?? what description is that?

Also.

There is way to much of that boat out of the water for that ballast tank to have been full.

hatch open, no ballast, gust............ the winds are a little stronger on the water than on shore... and you can have an apparant wind higher than the actual.

blub blub blub... oops....

no one hurt.

I sail a 26 Classic with water ballast. I don't know how anyone could go out without knowing the ballast tank was empty. My boat is so "tippy" without ballast. However, It settles into the water like a rock when i fill the ballast tank.
I would never even think of motoring around without ballast loaded. I've got my crew all trained to check that before we leave the dock.

Do the X's and M's feel stable without water ballast?

FWIW, just another theory here.

I understand that a a partially filled ballast is more dangerous than an empty one. What if this guy was running downwind and came about with the wind catching his sails. It's possible that all the water would slosh to one side and flip the boat over. Although I believe it would be difficult to not fill the ballast fully.

I find it hard to believe that even an unballasted Mac would flip with a light wind unless there was a sudden microburst.

That boat is sitting low in the water compared to the one in the Solent incident. There has to be a significant amount of water in the cabin. The news video cuts off just as it appears to be righting, or not.

Obviously nobody knows how to let the sails go free to allow it to right itself.

Mac in the Solent



--Russ

The captain could have used the incident as an excuse to clean the funk off of the Hull bottom.