Some physics based and hypothetical questions

[SkiDeep2001]

Boats don't have the problem .....People do...Most accidents happen from adult beverages and lack of life jackets.

This should be stuck in my post above. I knew I couldn't do it right. Rob

[Kelly Hanson East]

OKay - this is a really rough swag.

Rogers video shows that the 150 pounds of force at the top of a mast pulls the boat over, ballasted. With a 30 foot mast this means this is 4500 ft pounds of torque.
Sitting on the rail, you are about 4 feet from the COG of the boat, so you would need something like 1100 pounds on the rail to provide 4400+ ft pounds of torque.

If you remove 1100 pounds of water ballast, you end up with only 1300 pounds of mass below the COG, and your rail load for stability would only be 350 pounds or so.

This seems pretty light, so Im not sure this calc is too good. I may have a poor SWAG on where the mass of this boat actually lies.

[March]

Last week, we sailed with the ballast tank empty: I had misplaced the airing plug and quickly rigged another one from the sink stopper and some duct tape. It fit so snugly that I forgot to remove it. Three adults in 7 kts winds. I did notice that it tended to heel at a 3-4 kts speed under sail--under normal conditions, I had experienced that kind of heeling at 10 kts plus. The passangers were getting nervous as they tend to do when the boat heels more than 25 degrees, so I assumed that this is the newbie's jitters. The wind speed was more than reassuring. Only when we rowed to the shore did I realize that the boat was sitting much higher on the water. Once I pulled the plug out, everything settled in place.
It is a stable boat

[Don T]

March,
You probably had a partially filled ballast. I can think of nothing more destabilizing than 500~800 lbs of water sloshing back and forth. No wonder passengers were nervous.

[Bluecrab]

That brings up a good question. The last time we were out, the Admiral was trying to be helpfull and put the ballast plug in as we were putting the boat in the water. After the boat was in the water, she asked if she had done the right thing. I quickly went to the v birth and took out the plug and water gushed up into the bowl. I assumed it was full but the boat seemed to sit with the bow low all weekend. The morning we pulled out was very windy and I could hear a lot of sloshing in the rear birth when I woke up.

Could I have only partially filled the ballast leaving an air bubble in the stern? In 8-10mph winds (reported speeds) with full main and a 150 Genoa all the way out, the most we would heel with sails trimmed on a close reach was about 20+degrees.

Thanks,
Wally

[Kelly Hanson East]

Wally - I really doubt you left in a bubble of significance that would affect handling as you describe.

[baldbaby2000]

Wasn't there an famous incident on Lake Champlain where 2 kids drowned? My recollection was that a bunch of people were on the deck of a 26X watching fireworks and it capsized. The kids were in the cabin. If I don't have ballast in I caution anyone on deck to be careful and avoid having more than a couple people up there. I have an M which has 300lbs of fixed ballast and but I'm still careful.

[Divecoz]

Wasn't there an famous incident on Lake Champlain where 2 kids drowned? My recollection was that a bunch of people were on the deck of a 26X watching fireworks and it capsized. The kids were in the cabin. If I don't have ballast in I caution anyone on deck to be careful and avoid having more than a couple people up there. I have an M which has 300lbs of fixed ballast and but I'm still careful.

Yes there was and I forget the numbers of people on board and on deck but it was ............ridiculous ...
jjan: There are literally 10's of thousands of these boats a float and hundreds of active members here.... with numbers like that , if there was a problem you would hear about AND it read about it right here ...We have quite a number of fellows who push these boats to their limits often, and none TTBOMK have ever had a real incident.
Ive done it ( pushed my boat ) a few times too, though most often by accident , and I have yet to have an incident.
Not to say no one can Out Stupid the design of these boats .... just that no one with any common sense and an once of brains has done it yet...
as much as many here ( I included at times) P&M about how cheap Roger is .............. he builds a pretty sturdy little boat that we can all afford.

[dxg68]

I often pull my son and his friends on wakeboard without ballast at WOT. Sometimes it is choppy and we often cross the other boat’s big wakes. So far never felt in danger.

[bastonjock]

firstly,dont let the macgregor haters get at you,the majority of them have never been on one.I had a real sailor on mine this weekend,we were just playing around with the boat in a handling and docking competition,the guy absolutely loved the mac.we came second in the competition,the guy now wants me to take him out into the lumpy bumpy sea for a sail,i consider it a compliment to my boat when a sailor who not only survived the 79 fastnet race, came 4th in a boat that he built himself.

As for the ballast,i keep ballast in the boat when you leave it at its mooring,just as a safety precaution.When going out to sea i put the ballast in,i would not put the sail up with out ballast,if in the extremely unlikely event that you get a knock down then having the ballast in will make the boat pop back up.In inshore lakes and rivers you do not need the ballast when motoring,just remember to have the dagger board all the way up if you go over 6mph.

The mac is a very safe boat in inland and coastal waters

[Rick Westlake]

There are literally 10's of thousands of these boats a float and hundreds of active members here.... with numbers like that , if there was a problem you would hear about AND it read about it right here ... as much as many here (I included at times) P&M about how cheap Roger is .............. he builds a pretty sturdy little boat that we can all afford.

I second that assessment. Sturdy indeed ... and frankly, well-built if not fancy.

The 26X was reviewed in Practical Sailor's Practical Boat Buyer (6th edition), and a couple of quotes are significant ...

"The hull, deck and interior liners are solid, hand-laid fiberglass, and MacGregor brags that there's not a chopper gun in the factory; instead, workers use low-volume airless guns to wet out resins...."

"He is particularly rankled by critics who claim his methods are 'quick and dirty'. "We have the neatest, most tightly controlled plant on the earth, and these boats aren't failing."

It's apparent that Roger puts his money where it does the most good, in the lay-up; and he's built a boat that's easy to sail, easy to afford, and easy to modify/upgrade. The Mac 19 was my perfect first boat, and the Mac 26X continues to be my perfect "for now" boat; maybe later I'll want a Cabo Rico, but for now I'm content with this "Cabo Muy Economico"!

[baldbaby2000]

I've definitely become more careful especially with no ballast. Although being sobor helps, the laws of physics are the same whether under the influence or not. The other day I was motoring into the marina; the water was glass and I had empty ballast. A motor boat didn't want to get behind a sailboat before entering the no wake zone so he came in fast and cut the engine just before the no wake zone. I didn't think much of it but about 5 seconds later a huge swell from him slowing down hit me, and I rolled about 45 degrees and just about got slammed into the floating tire breakwater. If anyone had been on deck they would have been thrown over the side and maybe knocked unconcious had they hit the mast or rigging. The admiral was laying down below and got thrown around a bit. She came up thinking we hit something. It's just an example of a situation in which you would normally be very relaxed--beautiful day, slowly motoring into the marina, no wind or waves--that could have ending in disaster.

[Kelly Hanson East]

For the record on the Champlain incident

Inexperienced captain (relative of owner, borrowing boat for first time)
No ballast
Motoring
Alcohol involvement (captain was convicted of BWUI)
10 people on board, many of them on top of cabin
Crowded conditions with wakes due to end of July 4th show.

This was Russian Roulette with all chambers full, imho