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Chip Hindes wrote:kc: I agree that safety wire is much more effective than Nylocs, but Brit cars? I've owned 'em, I love 'em, but the idea you would present them as examples of the way things ought to be built; well, that's truly hiliarious. Especially Lotus

Um... beg to differ again. I've owned British cars for over 30 years... and a heck of a lot of them, too. In fact, one of my previous businesses was in restoration of English cars. If you maintain them as expected they're bullet proof. Give them to a moron who has no idea what lubrication or regular maintenance is and they break. I have a 1949 Triumph, a 1967 Sunbeam Alpine and a 1968 Morris Minor, all of which I drive regularly and none of which I've had to do any serious work on in literally years. RTFM

As to Lotus, I also beg to differ... in a big way. Our team was the FIA World Champion Car Constructor for 1963, 1965, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1973 and 1978 - only Ferrari has won it more times than Lotus - and we won the Formula 1 World Driver's Championship in 1963, 1965, 1968, 1970, 1972 and 1978. We had the first monocoque chassis ever in F1, the first engine as stressed member, the first ground-effects, and the first active suspension (in racing and in street cars). In fact, our suspension was so good that Chevrolet used it in their finest sports car, the Corvette.

Uh, oh; it looks like my attempt to inject some humor into the discussion may have offended some sensibilities. I apologize.

I was a design engineer for Lotus, Chip, and I did some significant work on some of the fastest and best handling cars in the world, in both production and track cars. When you criticise their engineering and call them laughable, well, yes, I think I should take offense, particularly as history reflects just the opposite. For quite some time, the Lotus Esprit was the fastest and best handling production car in the world.

Team Lotus is legendary for their innovation, and for their ability to design with the perfect balance of weight, strength and performance. Whenever Colin Chapman put a Lotus in a race, it nearly always ended with a finish in the top 5, and quite often the first two.

(Oh, and as far as styling, have a look at the popular Miata, and compare it with the 1962 Lotus Elan... I think you'll find the Miata is a dead-on copy. However, the Elan is faster and has won more races over the years.)

Love British cars. Have an 80 MGB http://www.seeberg.com and a new (to us) 2000 LR discovery II.

Both have proven that they are far more reliable than our 04 26M.

I would LOVE to have a lotus one day. Maybe an F1 Those things ROCK!

Now talk about a tangent from the initial message on this thread!

I am just wondering what else I need to keep an eye on with the boat. Seems like everything is falling apart. (Yes 99.9% are installer issues, not factory). I was lowering the mast the other day and a gust of wind came and swung the mast (which was at about 45 degrees). I was just hoping that the cables/shackles/etc were going to hold up. They did. whew.

Oh yea...just remembered...a 3rd nyloc nut that came undone on our boat..speaking of the mast. The fitting on the mast that the mast raising system attaches to (looks like a u with a bolt through the mast with a nyloc nut). That nyloc nut was barely on too. I was able to remove it by hand. I tightend that puppy up too. It is fine now. But I am sure it would be fairly dramatic to say the least, if that nut came out and the mast came crashing down. I also assume that nut/bolt was also done by the dealer.

There have been way too many close calls on this boat for my liking. At least I am getting the feel for it and know what to look for now. I am just wondering what else that I have not seen that is going to come loose.

I have got to take the time before the next sail to look at the swivel bolt at the base of the mast.

This boat keeps you on your toes..that is for sure!

Paul

Paul S wrote:Love British cars. Have an 80 MGB http://www.seeberg.com ... Paul

Nice 'B', Paul... very nice indeed. I used to race an Elva Courier (see picture here) and it had the same BMC B-series 1800cc drive-train. That motor never let me down.

Paul S wrote:.... Both have proven that they are far more reliable than our 04 26M.
.... I am just wondering what else I need to keep an eye on with the boat. Seems like everything is falling apart. (Yes 99.9% are installer issues, not factory).
.... I was lowering the mast the other day and a gust of wind came and swung the mast (which was at about 45 degrees). I was just hoping that the cables/shackles/etc were going to hold up. They did. whew.
.... Oh yea...just remembered...a 3rd nyloc nut that came undone on our boat..speaking of the mast. The fitting on the mast that the mast raising system attaches to (looks like a u with a bolt through the mast with a nyloc nut). That nyloc nut was barely on too. I was able to remove it by hand. I tightend that puppy up too. It is fine now.
.... There have been way too many close calls on this boat for my liking.
.... This boat keeps you on your toes..that is for sure!
Paul

Paul,

The work pictured of your MG is certainly impressive, so my perception is simply that you are a 99th percentile perfectionist. Without intending to convey offense (probably not possible, though), you have had more trouble with your two 26M boats than any other owner of a single Mac that I've ever read of. Candidly, it gets a little old reading Mac complaints, and makes me wonder about your approach ... my 26X has been utterly reliable since day one, now in 5th season.

Anyway, does the 26M come with baby stays for mast raising? These are short wire stays, ~6' long, should attach to deck and up to the U-bolt you mentioned. Maybe the pivoting mast makes it unnecessary, but I certainly wouldn't raise the 26X mast without them.

I'd guess that he U-bolt you're referring to is called a bail, just like the one used to attach mainsheet to boom. The nut should have been fully tightened, but it was not. Since it's the 3rd example, your installer must not have had his wrench the day your boat was assembled. I'd suggest that you should check every nylock on your boat.

The only other critical attachments (on most boats) are the shrouds. Considering the dealer you used, I guess it would be prudent to eyeball every screw, bolt, nut and wiring crimp on your boat, since they're almost universally dealer attached.

Have you checked the lugnuts on your trailer?

kmclemore wrote: (Oh, and as far as styling, have a look at the popular Miata, and compare it with the 1962 Lotus Elan... I think you'll find the Miata is a dead-on copy.

I beg to differ. The Miata looks like a 1968 MGB. I had one with 48,000 miles on it. Dual carbs, leather interior, wooden shift knob. Crashed at 68,000. Waa.

I want a Miata that is British racing green black top and interior - same as my old MGB.

ps... Did have to tune those dual carbs frequently.

I enjoyed your dig at British cars Chip - and they are legendary...Lucas electrics were always my favourite - but thats cause I charged 50 an hour in 1980 dollars to fix 'em....

Old, Old joke .... Why do the Brits like warm beer?







Refrigeration by Lucas ... "

Frank C wrote:
so my perception is simply that you are a 99th percentile perfectionist.

Without intending to convey offense (probably not possible, though), you have had more trouble with your two 26M boats than any other owner of a single Mac that I've ever read of. Candidly, it gets a little old reading Mac complaints, and makes me wonder about your approach ...

Anyway, does the 26M come with baby stays for mast raising? These are short wire stays, ~6' long, should attach to deck and up to the U-bolt you mentioned. Maybe the pivoting mast makes it unnecessary, but I certainly wouldn't raise the 26X mast without them.

I'd guess that he U-bolt you're referring to is called a bail, just like the one used to attach mainsheet to boom. The nut should have been fully tightened, but it was not. Since it's the 3rd example, your installer must not have had his wrench the day your boat was assembled. I'd suggest that you should check every nylock on your boat.

The only other critical attachments (on most boats) are the shrouds. Considering the dealer you used, I guess it would be prudent to eyeball every screw, bolt, nut and wiring crimp on your boat, since they're almost universally dealer attached.

Have you checked the lugnuts on your trailer?

Yes I am a perfectionist. Never going to apologize for that. I am trying not to beat a well beaten horse to death..but..

My original question was the potential for the rudders to fall off. The nut was loose. This is a fact..not a complaint. I just want to know if this is SOP for Macs...or is it just another dealer prep screw up.

The Honda motor overheating was a fact. It did happen. No one knows why..It appears to be OK now.

The sh!tty gelcoat finish really s*cks even after a good wax. This is unacceptable to anyone, IMO. This I have to live with. If YOU saw it in person, you would swear it was a used boat that someone buffed with a belt sander.

The motor linkage falling apart while motoring is a fact. It was installed incorrectly. The dealer admitted that. told me how to fix it. It is OK now.

Our first Mac was so bad...the dealer never sold it to anyone! That is pretty damn bad, IMO.

I just think it is a combination of the quality build at the factory tanking..and was just magnified by the poor (or non-existant) dealer prep.

Do I need to check every bolt, nut, fitting every time I go out? I just want to know..it is not a complaint. I just need to know what I am dealing with.

These messages always tend to go off on tangents. My original question was quite simple. Should I expect this..or what. I have never had a vehicle that I had to double check every nut and bolt. I am not a boat mechanic or rigger. Heck, I could over/under tighten something and I could be blamed for a failure. No specifications are given on how tight fittings should be.

My message certainly was not 'jesus F*&King christ...this F$%Fing boat is falling apart and is a piece of Sh!t' .... which is what some people might be reading..it is not..It is a good boat overall.

I just had a simple question. I have now lowered my standards of quality to such a low standard that I do not feel comfortable and am always worried something might fall off or break. I think this feeling is justified by my experience......because everything IS falling off or apart (or almost)!

Pardon me if I make you are annoyed by my small petty questions. I am new to sailing and have, and will continue to have small petty questions.

My question still is...Is this SOP for a Mac (tighting rudder bolts)...or just chalk it up to poor dealer prep?

Paul

Having to retighten nyloc nuts is not SOP. Since the threads on a bolt taper at the start, I always make sure there are at least two threads through every nut, especially on a locking nut. Count 'em with a fingernail.

I second the recommendation to go back and check every fastener. Read through the manual just like you received the boat unassembled and are putting it together. That's what I'm doing on our previously owned X. It sounds like the guy who did your rigging just got everything finger tight and didn't go back and use a wrench on them.

--
Moe

What could that guy screw up that could cost you yet. Rigging? Daggerboard? Things can happen at the worst possible times.

Moe wrote:...I second the recommendation to go back and check every fastener.... -- Moe

I 'third' that one. I go over my boat once at the beginning of each season, putting a spanner on each nut and giving it a tug to make sure it's up snug. I don't use my torque wrench - though that's not a bad idea - but I do give a frim pull - not enough to tighten them, just enough to be sure that they are not going loose. (This dates back to my racing days when we went over every bolt on the chassis with a torque wrench prior to every race or trial!)

Great Looper Dave liked my comment about Lucas inventing the short circuit!

On the subject of quality of parts or lack therof, when should I expect to have steering problems on my 2000 26X? I had a 1982 I/O powerboat that had a similar type steering system that still works to this day just fine. I have read of other people having problems and replacing the steering- is that normal or or did they get lemons in terms of steering. Should I preemptively replace the steering assembly, or should I expect that it is a quality part and will give me years of reliable service?

I already know the trailer is not the best quality in the world. The bolts are holding the bunks are not even SS- they were so rusted that when I tried to turn the nut the bolts snapped. I am in the process of redoing the whole trailer with new bunks, new SS bolts, new paint (POR-15) to cover the stainless. I would have gladly paid the more for a galvanized trailer, whatever the difference.

There are many things that are acceptable quality on the boat. The trailer, IMO, is not up to the same standards as the boat quality by far. I hope this is also not the case with the steering. BTW, was there a change in the steering some year during 26X production as there was with the rudder brackets?

Jeff