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Scott,

Everytime I see that picture I just want to scream NO! It was heavily emphasised to me to NEVER rely on a cam cleat to hold the line when raising the mast. Not the cam cleat at the winches or the cam cleat on the main sheet as in your picture. The dealer has seen numerous masts come down when the line slips out of the cleat. Lines get snagged, stepped on, no matter how much attention you pay to it, sh#t happens.

I was instructed to always bring the line to the winch and never let go of the tail. If I needed to attend to something during the up or down process the line was always be cleated on the aft dock cleat, even for the briefest times. As secure as either cam cleat seems, the line can and will slip out at the worst time. I can't recommend to anyone doing it as you are.

Moe wrote:Chip, there might be a market for a video of you doing your quick rigging with the mast raising system!

Actually funny you should mention it. Jeff Stagg (the same guy who did the original video) asked me if I would do a furler-with-mast-raising-gear supplement for his next video almost two years ago. I said I would but in the Spring got way too busy getting ready for Bimini. On return from Bimini I put my boat in a slip for the rest of the season, didn't pull it out until Thanksgiving and that was that.

Same thing this year, except substitute Dry Tortugas for Bimini.

Guess I should think about it again. One thing is, the season's so short here, anytime I've got free time I'm either working on the boat or on the water.

Chip has confirmed some recent inspirations, and that is mainly to get my toes off the front windows and get the mast in my cheeks and adjust the baby stays for the slot swing.

I can rig the boat in 19 minutes. The reason it takes me close to an hour is because of all the break downs. I go to loosen a finger tight nut and it hurts my fingers too much. I have to go down below, open a tackle box and fish around for a couple 9/16s wrenches. Five minutes later, I'm back in action. Where the heck is the back stay? Oh, there it is, all coiled up in a velcro loop half way up the mast. No problem, crank her down again. On it goes, making inefficient trips back and forth to do things that should have been done.

I've never had the courage to trust a cam cleat holding the mast before it's pinned. It's because I ran out of line one time dropping the mast and said, "Hey, unwrap the winch and I'll catch it." It dropped just a few feet and I did catch it in my hands and slowed it somewhat before it smashed into my shoulder and I looked down curious to see if the blow would cause my feet to pound through the cockpit floor.

John B wrote:I can rig the boat in 19 minutes. The reason it takes me close to an hour is because of all the break downs. I go to loosen a finger tight nut and it hurts my fingers too much. I have to go down below, open a tackle box and fish around for a couple 9/16s wrenches. Five minutes later, I'm back in action. Where the heck is the back stay? Oh, there it is, all coiled up in a velcro loop half way up the mast.

Exactly. My 19 minute record was the one time when everything went right. The reason it usually takes longer is just as you say: the small breakdowns, glitches and do overs. There are a couple of keys to eliminating and minimizing these.

When I get out of the truck, two 9/16 wrenches are in my right pocket. Two 7/16 wrenches are in my left pocket. I grab my plastic, two step folding stepstool out of the back seat and carry it to the stern for boarding.

When I remove the rudder bolts the nuts go a half turn back on the bolts and they go in my left pocket. When I take the big bolt out of the bow pulpit, ditto in my right pocket; when I get ready to pin the mast base on the deck plate, I reach in the pocket and there it is.

The forestay pin is tethered with a stainless fishing leader. When I take out the ring ding, I hold it in my teeth. Haven't lost one since the first time I raised the mast.

When I have "help", and they ask what they can do, I tell them the best thing they can do is carry stuff from the truck to the boat to be loaded, then standby on the pavement and hand me stuff (usually one of the wrenches) that I drop.

Plan your activities to minimze wasted motion. Everything that needs to be done from the ground: pull and stow the tie downs, rudder bolts, disconnect the trailer wiring harness, is completed in a one trip around the boat before I ever get on. I use the plastic ladder for boarding over the stern. The trailer bow ladder is possible, but right there on the starboard pulpit is where my monster Bulwagga anchor resides, it's difficult to get past without damaging myself, and with the plastic ladder it's easier and only marginally slower to climb on and off through the stern. I've only backed over the ladder once, and it survived.

Once I climb on the boat, I'm there until I climb off to pin the forestay. My rig is way too tight to do this while standing on my head on the foredeck. Trips back and forth to the foredeck, cockpit, foredeck, cockpit, etcetera take time, and I plan my sequence of tasks for the fewest number of trips.

Bungees are my greatest tool. Nothing gets disconnected that can instead be left in place and secured with a couple bungees. I use at least a dozen, all the same length. When rigging, as I remove them, I loop them around my neck for temporary storage. When derigging, I carry them the same way to use as needed. If they're too long, running a long one twice around is easier than searching for a short one.

Most important, to minimize forgotten steps (like the backstay still bungeed to the mast as it's being raised) do things in exactly the same sequence every time. If your memory's like mine, make a list and consult it the first couple of times. Better yet, have your helper read stuff off to you as it occurs. After a few times through, most of it becomes second nature.

Let's face it, you're seldom going to get it perfect. But when there's a glitch, add another mental check or revise your procedure to prevent it; keep trying until you find something that works well. For instance, I'm still working on a reliable way to prevent the backstay from snagging on something (rudders, motor, stern cleats, pedestal, captain's seat) as the mast goes up. On the other hand, I haven't kinked one of the shrouds (one of my original problems) in a long time.

BTW, I was never able to get my derigging time below 30 minutes; average was more like 35. It simply took longer to get everytihng stowed and ready for a 50 mile trip, including 35 miles at 70 mph on the Thruway.

Time on the water is time well spent, time rigging and derigging, although important and necessary, is really time wasted. If it takes an hour each, instead of an hour total, there will be times times when you'll decide it's not worth the bother and you'll stay home.

Sounds like we all have our systems that are quite similar. Everything should go great. We're headed out in the morning for Anacortes and 8 days on the water. Yeeee-Haaaa

Jesse

Chip Hindes wrote:.... Bungees are my greatest tool. Nothing gets disconnected that can instead be left in place and secured with a couple bungees. I use at least a dozen, all the same length. When rigging, as I remove them, I loop them around my neck for temporary storage.
.... minimize forgotten steps (like the backstay still bungeed to the mast as it's being raised) do things in exactly the same sequence every time.
.... working on a reliable way to prevent the backstay from snagging on something

I like the hint about identical bungees - good idea.

If you're like me, I never detached the backstay, so coiling that wire monster (reversing coils) was a trick you had to master. Yeah, gotta remember to let it loose for sure. I've had to drop the mast again for that reason, but it gradually wears a pathway through the gray matter!

Yeah, too - snagging the backstay was a PITA .... that's a nice benefit of the adjusting tackle. The backstay is now 6 feet shorter, and it just dangles in the air as the mast goes up. My tackle stays draped across the cockpit sole, and last step is to clip the center tackle-shackle to the dangling wire loop. Try it, you might like it!

Just to pass something on...since we put Catigale in the Hudson we only trailer here 5-6x a year - my last trip to Fairhaven Lake Ontario brought a surprise - when I came home my starboard upper shroud had come off the chainplate - ring ding must have worked its way off

Check them everytime you sail!!

When I was running wires all over Catigale there were a couple of places I exposed wires - 3M makes a real nice cloth tape which covers up wires really nicely...

I showed my twin 7 year olds the rear berths with the new reading lights and they want them for the next trip....this means much better sleeping for the Admiral and me!!

Stephen

Speaking of bungees, if you haven't seen the ones sold by BlueWater Yachts you need to take a look

Cinch It's


These are bar none the best bungee made and they are perfect for use securing things for trailering or under way. No more going round and round until you get to the point you can hook the hooks together. No more scratches from missing plastic tips, no more rusty hooks. They adjust to any length instantly. You just take a turn or two, stretch the end by pulling on the ring and slide the tail of the shock cord into the slot. They hold very securely. I have 17 of them and use them to secure the furler, all the the lines, everything. It's real easy to slip a handful in your back pocket. I use them alot out cruising as well, they work great to secure the halyards out to the stays to stop any slapping.

Here's some in action on my boat holding the furler and all the lines.



Another tip, rather than carrying four wrenches in you pocket have a welder buddy slice a standard 7/16 open/box end wrench in half, and do the same to a 9/16 wrench. Then weld the open ends to each other and the box ends to each other. Now you only need to carry two wrenches to handle any bolt/nut you need to deal with.

Great idea with the wrenches, Duane. Just tried to order some cinch its from BW Yachts this morning. All out, with more on order two weeks out. They are quite involved with the Seattle Boat show and its hard to get through.

Yeah, it's is a bad time to try and reach them. There are two big boat shows here.

The winter one at the Seahawks stadium exhibition center combined with Boats Afloat, and the one going on now that is the end of summer Boats Afloat. Bluewater has always done very well at theses shows, particularly when they get to be side by side with the Hunters and the Catalinas. The other salespeople endlessly make the mistake of bashing the MacGregor product which sends more people to the Mac to find out what all the fuss is about. They never learn. They sell more Macs by their negativity than they ever sell of their own boats.

It's kinda cool. Bluewater encourages MacGregor owners to hang out and help them talk to the customers. Satisfied customers sell boats far better than slick sales people. Todd and Cheryl do a great job keeping everyone happy, they are a great MacGregor dealer.

Duane Dunn, Allegro wrote:Yeah, it's is a bad time to try and reach them. There are two big boat shows here. ...

'Tis the season ... Oakland's show begins on Sept 11, then Annapolis in October. I live near Oakland, Mom lives in Annapolis, so I hope to make it to both shows.

My coiled up backstay is stowed at the mast crutch. I take one of the ears and pass one side of the coil through before bolting the mast. This way, it can't go anywhere and it is also automatically released as the mast starts going up.

I have a piece of PVC tube (maybe 1 inch) that is about 4 feet long on the backstay. While underway, it slides down over the vernier adjusters so that no one can get hurt by them, or mess with them in the cockpit. But it serves double duty when the mast is coming up or down. Due to the rigidity, if I casually tie the tube up mostly vertical (can tie it either to the bimini or the stern pulpit) it keeps the cable from dropping in the water or snagging the outboard, etc. You still have to reel in some of the slack as the mast is coming down, but that is not hard to do since you are in the cockpit (with the X raising gear). As it comes down, I put the coils in the backstay and temporarily make the mast crutch hold it. When the mast is an inch off of the crutch, I neaten everything up and put the coil in its final position.

Another tip on the wrenches. I have two open/box end 9/16 and two open/box end 7/16 wrenches. The 9/16 pair are tied together by a long cord (3ft) through the box ends and the pair of 7/16 are similar. They don't fall overboard and they don't get separated.

Hi everyone.
Just a thought, whilst lowering the mast at Plymouth, England yesterday to trailer home I thought I'd just check the top of the forestay. Good job I did - with all the mast raising and lowering that I do, the top of the forestay has begun to unravel itself, so that the individual steel wires have become untwisted.
Easy to do as tyhe roller furling system is all over the place when lowering/raising. Don't know why I didn't bungee the thing to the mast....yeah I know..dumb-ass Brit as you lot would say!!!
Looks like a new forestay wire. Just a tip - periodically check the top of the forestay if you do alot of mast raising/lowering.
Regards
Max

Max wrote:.....yeah I know..dumb-ass Brit as you lot would say!!!

Looks like a new forestay wire. Just a tip - periodically check the top of the forestay if you do alot of mast raising/lowering....

I dunno Max, don't think I'd say that (apolitically speaking, I think we need our few friends abroad)...

The forestay hint is certainly valid, to check both top and bottom connections. Shrouds deserve a quick look too. Unfortunately, when I finally get to the boat near the water on a weekend, I'm usually in such a rush that I don't take the advice to heart.

BTW, from recent postings of UK prices, you should either plan to make your own forestay, or ask if Bill-4-Sail can provide you with a new one.