MacGregorSailors.com

I have the sport pilot + and am very happy. It's a simple installation, doesn't stand out as much as the ST4000, looks like it was designed perfectly for the mac pedestal. Everything is internal in the enclosure between the wheel and the pedestal, no big ring involved, it mounts on the shaft and just had a simple anti-rotation bracket that mounts well to the flat face of the pedestal.

It served us very well on our recent 500 mile trip. It's point and shoot mode is simple to use and it does an even better job paired with our GPS following a route. It works equally well under power at high speed or running slow iunder power or sail. I find the lower gain settings give the best performance. As someone mentioned adding a rudder feeback unit can even improve it's performance more.

It will work with any of the Raymarine remote display/controls and is fully seatalk compatible. My connection to the GPS is not seatalk, just a simple NEMA data stream.

Duane, did you use the existing steering wheel that came on the Mac for your SportPilot installation?
Dave C. said that he heard that the SportPilot system made the wheel wobble, have you had that problem?
Dave C also said that his ST4000 made a scraping noise when you turn the wheel, and then somebody else commented on the "noisy wheel" on this thread.
The local install guy said he prefered the ST 4000 but he didn't say why.
I think that all I would use would be the point and shoot feature, but did you say the SportPilot would interface with a GPS system (I've got the Garmin 168 Gps/Sounder). Thanks! Terry

I used the stock wheel, without the huge ring of the ST4000 there is no need to go to a larger one.

The sport pilot mounts between the wheel and the hub. It's internal gears do have some slack, but based on the stories here I expect it to be much greater. I can't say I even notice it now, it just seems normal after the last 500 miles.

The sport pilot makes no noise turning the wheel manually. You can hear a slight motor whine when it turns the wheel, but you have to listen close. The look of the sport pilot is also more discreet, it doesn't scream autopilot like the big ring does when someone looks in your cockpit.

Installation is simpler as it works better with the flat face of the pedestal than the ST4000 does.

There are two operating modes. In one you just point the boat where you want to go and turn the knob on the control. The boat uses the compass to follow that course, but it doesn't account for any side slip due to currents, wind, etc.

The second mode is Nav mode where it follows a course from the GPS. This mode follows the route from waypoint to waypoint using cross track error info supplied by the GPS. This will drive the boat right to a spot no matter how the current and wind pushes it around and the required heading changes.

Your Garmin will work fine. You would connect the Sportpilot black and red NEMA wires to the GPS NEMA transmit and ground wires. It's a simple one way communication. Seatalk adds even more functionality and if I had other Raymarine instruments I would hook that up too. You can have both

I find I like using nav mode the best. I can pull up a route I've preloaded into the GPS and let the boat follow along from waypoint to waypoint. At each waypoint the pilot beeps asking permision to make the turn to the next leg. You push the button to respond and off the boat goes on the next segment. I have most of my cruising area set up in the GPS with waypoints and another usefull method is to select one where I want to go and choose steer to waypoint form the GPS menu. Now the pilot will take the boat there. A similar funtion in my GPS is to place the cursor where I want to go and choose go to cursor. This also will send the pilot the info to drive the boat to that point.

I think in general if you say you have a sailboat you will get the ST4000 recommended as it is a sailboat wheel pilot. If you say you have a powerboat you will get the sportpilot recommended. From what I can tell the only feature in the ST4000 not in the Sportpilot is an auto tack feature. It also doesn't have the digital course display of the ST4000, but I have never found a need to know this info. You can add all this to the Sportpilot by adding a seatalk remote.

You should be able to get all the info here

www.raymarine.com

In the customer support area they have all the manuals where you can see the details of operation and installation.

Scott:

The Raymarine SportPilot IS an autopilot. Has a fluxgate compass for directional input and can have an optional rotary or straight-line rudder position transducer. Also an optional remote on a wire. The Plus model seems to work better on slow-moving boats = sailboats. Both models accept Seatalk and Nmea 183 so your GPS or PC can tell it which way to go to get to the next waypoint and it will take you to it.

Duane, thanks for the info. I think that the Sport Pilot is the machine to fill my needs. One problem that I would have with ST4000 is where to mount the display. My Garmin 168 sets atop the binacle and the display panel for the ST would have to be incorporated somewhere there to. I like the uncluttered look. One last question, did you install the unit yourself and if so was it difficult? Thanks, Terry

Terry Chiccino wrote:Duane, thanks for the info. I think that the Sport Pilot is the machine to fill my needs. One problem that I would have with ST4000 is where to mount the display. My Garmin 168 sets atop the binacle and the display panel for the ST would have to be incorporated somewhere there to. I like the uncluttered look.

My Lowrance LMS320 is mounted in this same spot, and I wrestled with where to mount the ST4000 display. Here's where I ended up putting it...

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin ... record=227

I liked this spot, because it was easily visible throughout the cockpit (I like being able to see the display, not only for heading/autopilot info, but other things, such as speed, depth, etc., can be displayed if being received by NMEA). But having it mounted here makes it awkward to reach unless I happen to be sailing on a port tack! Hence, I recently added a remote that provides the ideal solution... easy visibility of the display plus easy access to the directional controls from wherever I am in the cockpit (or cabin).

--Mike

Mike, thanks to you and all on the board for the valuable input recieved. The vast collective experience of Mac owners performing modifications to their boats saves so much time in terms of "trail blazing" and certainly makes the process easier.
I'm trying to keep all the controls on the binacle and it ain't easy. So far the compass is mounted on the bulkhead and the VHS is in the cabin, I'd like to have a remote speaker for the VHS on/in the binacle too so that I can hear it without blowing everyone else on board away with radio jabber.
I was really thinking about getting the ST4000, but the more I look at the SportPilot the more I like it. Looking at the Sport in the West Marine catalog, it looks like a good fit and appears to incorporate the KISS principal. Thanks, Terry

Now Im ticked, UNHAPPY Thought the sportpilot wouldnt work well with a sailboat (Told by sales guy)UNHAPPY Bought Wheel pilot HAPPY, Figured out how to use it "its cool" HAPPIER, found out the ratio on sportpilot would work with sailboat and is NMEA / Sea talk compatible. UNHAPPY

Well not really Im actually very satisfied with the autohelm, but I do like the profile of the sportpilot better.

Rolf wrote:Dave,
How does your MKII work when motoring fast? Maybe we can get a poll as to which model people prefer. I appreciate this and Mike's autopilot thread because I'm in the market for one now. On your trip to Ensenada, did you have any problems with it, and where is it strongest? I sail here in SoCal in similar conditions as you, and hope to one day have the gumption for an Ensenada sail as well( i've made many a surf trip down there).
Rolf
2002x-Albatross

I used on on the Ensenada trip quite a bit. And last year up to the Channel Islands as well. My opinion is this...

There are times I wouldn't be without it at twice the price...and there are times I feel like yanking the damn thing off and tossing it overboard.

I have learned some things...

When sailing, the more wind the better or don't move... I've found that it wants to make adjustments really slow. Which a lot of times is perfect. Unlike me, it's not so prone to over react to things and turning the wheel quickly. So changes to the balance of the boat make a huge difference and in light winds it doesn't correct and recover well. If it doesn't recover (get back on course) in the alotted time, it falls into an error mode that is indicated by the tick-tick-tick sound from the drive motor and and a PE on the display screen. So in light winds stay still or move slowly.

When motoring, the bow will tell you when to give it up. There are a lot of factors that are going to effect how it performs when motoring. Speed, sea conditions, and rudders all make a big difference.
Not much different then steering yourself. The simplest way to put it is that it comes down to what the bow is doing. If you are getting slammed and your bow is going this-way and that-way, then forget about the autopilot, After you use it for a little while you'll get a good feel for when you can and when it's not worth trying. The same is true in following seas. If your doing that Urrr-Urrr, this side-then-that side surfing thing, then you're probably better to steer it yourself.

Dave,
Those conditions you describe(following sea, into weather) are exactly what I'm up against at least half the time, so I'm pretty well resigned to forced manual steering, at least at speed.
Duane,
Thanks for helping me settle on the sportpilot. I also have the Garmin 168 so nice to know its a good fit.
Rolf-2002x-albatross

I think you'll find that there is a speed and configuration that lets the pilot steer in almost any conditions.

The following sea is the toughest. If the sea is dead astern there is no problem, but the quartering sea on the stern is a pain. Even in this our Sport Pilot will handle things fine with one config, what I call the slow config. This is centerboard down about 1/3, and one rudder down. I normally limit this config to 6 knots to be kind to the rudders, but the pilot steers well this way even with a quartering following sea at 7-8 knots as well. I find the lowest gain setting best so the pilot doesn't over react when the boat slews to the side. It also handles this config far better when in nav mode steering by the GPS autopilot commands than it does in point and shoot mode where it relies on the compass only. This slow config will also work good in heavy weather on the nose if it is too rough to use the prefered fast config.

The other config that steers really well when the seas are anywhere from abeam to forward is fast config. All the fins are up in this config and with just the small surface area of the motor you need to go at 9+ knots to begin to get some directional stability from the hull. I find that once I get around 11 knots the boat is much more stable, particularly to weather. It takes much less input from the helm to hold the course. The pilot steers great in these conditions, I usually use the second lowest gain setting, and again, it is much more accurate following a GPS course. In a way it's a bit strange, you will swear it is swerving around as the nose is not fixed in constant direction, but if you zoom in and look at the chart you will find that it has laid the track line dead center on top of the route line. It really does do a good job if you just leave it alone. You don't have to use full routes to take advantage of this. Just choosing go to cursor or go to waypoint in the GPS makes taking advantage of Nav mode simple.

You won't regret putting the Sport Pilot+ on, and I think you will find there are ways to use it in almost any sea state, but one method does not fit all. Do hook it to your GPS as it is a far better pilot following the AP NEMA statements than it is with just the compass.

I find I only use the point by the compass mode for short periods as a third hand. Either of the two configs, slow with fins or fast without are the best for point and shoot as well but you don't always end up where you want to go because of the sideways effects of wind and current which the pilot cannot adjust for in point and shoot mode. Once it has gotten off course briefly and slewed to the side, it just works to get the nose pointed back the right way and is happy even if you are now pointed to a different spot. In Nav mode it will choose a different heading to get back to where you want to go.

This sound perfect for our regular 22 mile Catalina Isthmus trips from LA harbor into weather and swell, which is where I would use it the most motoring fast or sailing, and sailing back from the island on a downwind beam reach.

We sometime return early from the Isthmus with a following sea which often has a heavy swell, which is when I would not use it because I really enjoy motoring fast and surfing home in these conditions. Last month I averaged 16 knots on our trip back like this, where I basically surfed one long wave all the way home(okay at least it felt like it). You really get a "feel" for the boat this way, and can learn to balance on the crest of the swells without slowing down. Almost as fun as sailing IMO.

How much did you pay for your sport+, and where did you get it? Are there good deals online? Thanks,
Rolf

This sound perfect for our regular 22 mile Catalina Isthmus trips from LA harbor into weather and swell, which is where I would use it the most motoring fast or sailing, and sailing back from the island on a downwind beam reach.

We sometime return early from the Isthmus with a following sea which often has a heavy swell, which is when I would not use it because I really enjoy motoring fast and surfing home in these conditions. Last month I averaged 16 knots on our trip back like this, where I basically surfed one long wave all the way home(okay at least it felt like it). You really get a "feel" for the boat this way, and can learn to balance on the crest of the swells without slowing down. Almost as fun as sailing IMO.

How much did you pay for your sport+, and where did you get it? Are there good deals online? Thanks,
Rolf

I too have the sportpilot and the Garmin 168 GPS. Currently the NEMA connection from the GPS is connected to my VHS radio. Does anyone know if they can be connected to the Sportpilot also at the same time. I sure would like to use the Nav mode on the AP but don't want to compromise the safety factor of being able to broadcast my coordinates if needed.

The best place I have found is Boaters World http://www.boatersworld.com/webapp/wcs/ ... ry=&page=3 Their price is $799.00 for the Sportspilot Plus, which includes free shipping.
Jeff