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I am so paranoid raising & lowering mast (esp raising), I typically cleat the end of the rope coming out of the winch whenever I need to let go to attend to something.

I am considering modifying the set up by attaching the fixed end of the jib halyard to the pole, instead of the mast cleat (together w/ the other end). That means the halyard will double up in a u-config coming from the pulley at the top of the mast. Motivation is that i crank the system hard to be able to pin the turnbuckle on the bow fitting. I'm always paranoid that something might break & I figured, this set up would eliminate the possiblity of the halyard breaking. Has anyone tried this set up? Does anyone see any fallacy in the logic? I'd hate to discover the hard way, if someone has already been thru the pain.

Based on this chain though, maybe I should be more worried about the pole than the halyard.

RHC-

By doubling the jib halyard as you describe, both ends to the M-R-S, I don't see how that will prevent the halyard from breaking...or keep the mast from falling if it does. If the halyard breaks at the ends or in the middle, it breaks none the less. You'd need another line attached to the mast to keep it from falling, and another set of hands to man that line.

I am so paranoid raising & lowering mast (esp raising), I typically cleat the end of the rope coming out of the winch whenever I need to let go to attend to something.

I do the same. I only have 99.999% confidence in the jam cleat holding the mast at anything less than full upright, as I always raise the mast singlehanded. I just think of it as a double redundant safety practice. My paranoia manifestes itself in other ways tho!

Been there...done that. My mast crashed at a Marina Del Rey Mac get-to-gether. $500 for the new mast and away I went.

K9Kampers wrote: By doubling the jib halyard as you describe, both ends to the M-R-S, I don't see how that will prevent the halyard from breaking...or keep the mast from falling if it does. If the halyard breaks at the ends or in the middle, it breaks none the less.

Snubbing both halyard ends at the MR-pole eliminates the plastic mast cleat as a source of failure -
a big advantage, as one Member here had the sheetmetal screws holding that cleat pulled loose (years ago).

Since his jib halyard was snubbed to that cleat for raising, he dropped the mast. I believe Roger replaced it for him.

Hi all,
Went for a sail yesterday & nervously raised & then lowered the mast. Not a hint of slip from the mast raising system. From what I can tell I did everything the same as last time so I'm no clearer on what caused the mast to fall. It seems that the winch clutch might have been the culprit...Cheers John

K9Kampers,

the theory is, by doubling on the line between the mast & MR pole, the load is distributed between the 2. that means each line will only carry half the load.
again, the weak link might be the mr-pole. i have a 26x and the pole does not have a fastener in the location i see in the picture. in that sense the 26x might be better off than the M.

thanks for the response.
RHC

RHC-
I understand what you are trying to do - give yourself a safety in case the halyard breaks. Sure, by doubling the (single) halyard, the load is spread across a larger area (length of line). But, if the either half of the halyard were to break, you're up s-creek, because it is the same line, regardless of being doubled. As a backup safety measure, you would need two seperate lines. Not that a line couldn't fail, but I would think that a piece of hardware to be likely to fail first, ie: cleat, sheave, screw..., where by doubling the halyard as you describe eliminates a piece of hardware from the process.

Tried to adapt the raising system to my 222 and it worked great for a year then the winch slipped and down came the mast. It pulled the Tabernacle out of the boat and the mast landed in a tree which saved it.

Had to replace the tabernacle and repaire the fiberglass deck. With that all done I went to Harbor Frieght and bought a reversing winch that locks and cranks in both directions. The system works great and the winch was only $20 on sail oops sale. The world is GREAT.

Well it was great...... then the admiral fell in love with an which now sits in the driveway and I have "grown" to love it too.
OK I "groaned" about the thought of sleeping in the smaller 222 again..... Yes, bigger is better.

don

A halyard would only break if you have seriously abused it with weather or chafe or something else pathological. Sta Set 3/8 halyards have breaking strength of roughly 5000 pounds....if you are loading your winch half that much I think other things will break first.

what Stephen, and others, said. These 3/8" halyards are not the weak links.
And fittings won't necessarily FAIL, they simply come "undone."

However, the idea of doubling the line to halve its work ... is fallacy.
That line still incurs the full weight of the load on the one-inch segment that's wrapping the block, top of mast.

Frank C wrote:what Stephen, and others, said. These 3/8" halyards are not the weak links.
And fittings won't necessarily FAIL, they simply come "undone."

However, the idea of doubling the line to halve its work ... is fallacy.
That line still incurs the full weight of the load on the one-inch segment that's wrapping the block, top of mast.

Yep. When the Mast of EnterPrise Sea came crashing down it was due to a cheapo $1 carabener from Home Depot!!!!!

Rich's mast is laying in my side yard...a future project as a flagpole in my yard. But, the local recycle center is offering 2 bucks a pound for aluminum!

The PO of my boat modified the X's mast raising system. I'll have to post pictures as I'm not sure I can accurately describe it but I'll try. The lower end of the vang (correct term?) that runs from the mast raising pole to the deck now has a plate with a block and a camcleat the line runs through. This means you can pull the line while standing on the bow and out of harms way and can stop it partway as necessary to clear the standing rigging from lifelines etc. Once the mast is up it's very easy to tie the line off to one of the bow cleats for security. For me it works well but it means I don't run the line back to a winch, I just pull it by hand. I suppose I could get longer line and run to the winch but so far I haven't found it necessary. The first couple feet are hard but after that it's easy. I do generally double up the line for additional purchase once the mast is up and give it a good tug before I tie it off and secure the forestay.

"However, the idea of doubling the line to halve its work ... is fallacy.
That line still incurs the full weight of the load on the one-inch segment that's wrapping the block, top of mast."

yup, your right Frank. that did occur to me after a couple posts. i'll try to be less paranoid by remembering the 5k lb capacity.

2 bucks a pound seems like a pretty good deal. IIRC, when I got rid of my broken mast some months ago, I got about $27 for it which is less than 1 buck a pound (I seem to remember it was around 30 pounds).

Btw, looking through this thread and the broken pole, seems like there is a design flaw where the winch attaches to the pole with a bolt all the way through. Looks like the pole broke right there so either a stronger pole is needed (which can withstand a hole being drilled all the way through) or else it should be attached with some sort of clamps that don't require a hole being drilled all the way through. I would expect the factory to cheerfully fix and replace this as it seems it could be a big safety issue. I have the old system which is very simple and quite solid, but I still keep all my kids far away from the boat when I am raising or lowering.