project venture-17

[littledevil]

thanks for the replays. yes there is a line that enables me to pull the rudder to kicked back position. also there is a cleat on the upper part so i can make the line fast. in which cases we should keep the rudder horizantal or vertical? if rudder has to be kept vertical during sailing, than i can put through a pin or etc. so it won't kick back.

[littledevil]

i think this way is correct. thanks

it looks like this is my best bet for main sheet rigging without modification.


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bowline at the port side



ends up at starboard.
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[littledevil]

[img][img]http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p148 ... /o2064.jpg[/img]

i've worked on the anchor little bit. 4 feet of chain followed by 3/8 nylon rode. for now the lenght of the rode is 50 feet. is there anyone familiar with the hudson river(ny) area who can tell me how much is enough for sailing mostly around the hudson river? i am buying the rode from home improvement stores but they come in 50 feet lenght. is there any problem if i attach them together and make longer lines? or is it best to buy longer lenghts to avoid weak points. poly lines are cheapest ($10 for 100 feet) this nylon one cost $10 for 50 feet. not bad i guess. [/img]

[Kelly Hanson East]

Just North of you in Albany

Poly is not good material for rodes, since it degrades in UV, and also floats.

Knotting lines seriously reduces their strength, so its not recommended for rodes. Im sure people have done this, but it isnt highly regarded.

Up here, we are usually anchoring in 10-20 feet of fresh water, so 100-150 feet of rode is desirable for overnights. Dont forget approx 4 foot tidal range.

[Ivan Awfulitch]

A few things. The mainsheet setup is exactly the way my 17 came, and believe it or not it works great. For the jib lines, it looks like you have a cleat to tie off the sheet line to. I'd recommend you replace them with a good cam cleat. Mine came with Harken cam cleats where your cleats are. Simple to cleat and release without getting up. And for the rudder, it should be able to kick up very easily in case of contact. It doesn't seem that it will stay down, but pull the rope to put the rudder in the full down position and it should stay down unless contact is made. If you find it does flip up, tighten the bolts at the joint slightly until it stays in place for you.

Something I didn't see, how's the condition of the keel line and winch?

[littledevil]

Just North of you in Albany

Poly is not good material for rodes, since it degrades in UV, and also floats.

Knotting lines seriously reduces their strength, so its not recommended for rodes. Im sure people have done this, but it isnt highly regarded.

Up here, we are usually anchoring in 10-20 feet of fresh water, so 100-150 feet of rode is desirable for overnights. Dont forget approx 4 foot tidal range.

how about if we open the strands and braid them at each 50 feet lenght? would that be reliable? otherwise i will have to order online. there is some deals on ebay as well/ you get 200 feet for $40 shippped. sounds good.

[littledevil]

A few things. The mainsheet setup is exactly the way my 17 came, and believe it or not it works great. For the jib lines, it looks like you have a cleat to tie off the sheet line to. I'd recommend you replace them with a good cam cleat. Mine came with Harken cam cleats where your cleats are. Simple to cleat and release without getting up. And for the rudder, it should be able to kick up very easily in case of contact. It doesn't seem that it will stay down, but pull the rope to put the rudder in the full down position and it should stay down unless contact is made. If you find it does flip up, tighten the bolts at the joint slightly until it stays in place for you.

Something I didn't see, how's the condition of the keel line and winch?

i am glad to hear that. yes i have cleats for jib lines but i would like to gain some experience before going for upgrades. boat didn't really came with anything so i am at the stage of getting it ready for the water. lines, fenders, anchors etc. in the future i probably would cosider replacing the cleats with cams.
for the rudder what i understand is it stays down with its own weight even while you are sailing. than kicks up in case of contact. so trying to stabilize it in down position is wrong. am i on the right track?
po said that he did some work on the whole keel system. looking at it i can tell winch is fairly new. the wooden board is nice and heavy. pivot bolt and rest of the system looks solid as well. keel itself is little bit damaged but i think it just cosmetic. i'll post some pictures of keel system asap

[Kelly Hanson East]

Im being a bit of a persnickity purist to say you cant tie anchor rodes together...braiding will be fine..but knotting them might well work for a lunch hook or the like. I dont think I would sleep too well on the tidal Hudson, knowing 1000 foot freighters go up and down the river all night, on a knotted rode.

Two things I dont like about the main sheet rig though

1. That bowline on the mainsheet should have a thimble on it, not merely a loop, on that deck eye.

2 Does that deck eye have some backing behind those screws ??- get underneath and check condition of hull and the washers or plate before sailing.

[Bawgy]

IVAN has a great suggestion to replace the cleats with Cam cleats for the jib sheets. It is alot easier to release and secure the jib sheet in position and will take some of the tension away wjile gaining experience.

Kelly has a good one too (even if he does have a white hull) . A thimble to protect the mainsheet at the bowline is a good idea. My V-24 just has a bowline and has done fine for 37 years but now that I have been to;d I will have to change that before it snaps.

Check every deck fitting to see if there is a backing plate underneath.

Not sure of the power involved in that main but putting a double block on the mastend tang and a block at each gunwhale will give you a better advantage when try ing to sheet in a good breeze . Makes the day easier with less effort every time you want to adjust the sail

[littledevil]

Im being a bit of a persnickity purist to say you cant tie anchor rodes together...braiding will be fine..but knotting them might well work for a lunch hook or the like. I dont think I would sleep too well on the tidal Hudson, knowing 1000 foot freighters go up and down the river all night, on a knotted rode.

Two things I dont like about the main sheet rig though

1. That bowline on the mainsheet should have a thimble on it, not merely a loop, on that deck eye.

2 Does that deck eye have some backing behind those screws ??- get underneath and check condition of hull and the washers or plate before sailing.

i'll stick with the no knot idea on the anchor line. also i will take a look to make sure it has some sort of backing. what if i attach the main sheet to deck eye with snap ring? this way it would be easier to remove it. just curious.

[littledevil]

IVAN has a great suggestion to replace the cleats with Cam cleats for the jib sheets. It is alot easier to release and secure the jib sheet in position and will take some of the tension away wjile gaining experience.

Kelly has a good one too (even if he does have a white hull) . A thimble to protect the mainsheet at the bowline is a good idea. My V-24 just has a bowline and has done fine for 37 years but now that I have been to;d I will have to change that before it snaps.

Check every deck fitting to see if there is a backing plate underneath.

Not sure of the power involved in that main but putting a double block on the mastend tang and a block at each gunwhale will give you a better advantage when try ing to sheet in a good breeze . Makes the day easier with less effort every time you want to adjust the sail

which website would you suggest for ordering things like cam cleats etc. i will have to live soon for couple weeks vacation but i may consider getting them after i come back.

[Bawgy]

Check first with the dealers that support this site I also use Mauriprosail.com and layline.com

[Ivan Awfulitch]

i am glad to hear that. yes i have cleats for jib lines but i would like to gain some experience before going for upgrades. boat didn't really came with anything so i am at the stage of getting it ready for the water. lines, fenders, anchors etc. in the future i probably would cosider replacing the cleats with cams.
for the rudder what i understand is it stays down with its own weight even while you are sailing. than kicks up in case of contact. so trying to stabilize it in down position is wrong. am i on the right track?
po said that he did some work on the whole keel system. looking at it i can tell winch is fairly new. the wooden board is nice and heavy. pivot bolt and rest of the system looks solid as well. keel itself is little bit damaged but i think it just cosmetic. i'll post some pictures of keel system asap

On the rudder situation, yes it stays down all by itself 99.995% of the time unless it hits something. Once it's mounted on the boat, you'll notice that the joint is not parallel to the water, but the forward edge is slightly elevated. If you find it kicks up, tighten the bolt at the joint slightly until it stays in place.

As long as the cables look free of rust and corrosion and are not tightly kinked you should be in good shape. Check the workings of the winch, as many of the old brake winches no longer have a brake (meaning if you release the winch it will spin and quickly let the keel all the way down rather than requiring you to turn the handle to have it go down). If you're careful it's not a problem (my winch brake gave up full function and I sailed it for years). My keel looks ugly, as it's been patched many times by previous owners. As long as it's intact and watertight shouldn't be a problem.

By the way, those little slots on the side of your boat just above the rub rail are bumper cleats made by Tyler Made. There's a small clip with an oval that you tie the bumper to, then snap them into the clip mounted on the boat. I put these on my 17 and they've worked perfectly for over 15 years.

Finally for the jib cleats, consider changing to a cam cleat before you try sailing. With them, you simply pull the line for the jib and main, make your tack, then pull the lines in and set the sails. Having to move forward to uncleat and cleat will be a pain. Try Defender Marine or one of the others online for a source, or for a bit more money you can get them at West Marine stores.

[littledevil]

Check first with the dealers that support this site I also use Mauriprosail.com and layline.com

thanks. i have looked at them. when i order cam cleat which material i should get. they have carbon fiber ones which is cheaper. but they suggest to get the one with the alumunium teeth if the rope will be drown through the teeths for adjustment which i believe is our case. so should i stay away from the carbon ones even its a pretty small boat?

[littledevil]

i am glad to hear that. yes i have cleats for jib lines but i would like to gain some experience before going for upgrades. boat didn't really came with anything so i am at the stage of getting it ready for the water. lines, fenders, anchors etc. in the future i probably would cosider replacing the cleats with cams.
for the rudder what i understand is it stays down with its own weight even while you are sailing. than kicks up in case of contact. so trying to stabilize it in down position is wrong. am i on the right track?
po said that he did some work on the whole keel system. looking at it i can tell winch is fairly new. the wooden board is nice and heavy. pivot bolt and rest of the system looks solid as well. keel itself is little bit damaged but i think it just cosmetic. i'll post some pictures of keel system asap

On the rudder situation, yes it stays down all by itself 99.995% of the time unless it hits something. Once it's mounted on the boat, you'll notice that the joint is not parallel to the water, but the forward edge is slightly elevated. If you find it kicks up, tighten the bolt at the joint slightly until it stays in place.

As long as the cables look free of rust and corrosion and are not tightly kinked you should be in good shape. Check the workings of the winch, as many of the old brake winches no longer have a brake (meaning if you release the winch it will spin and quickly let the keel all the way down rather than requiring you to turn the handle to have it go down). If you're careful it's not a problem (my winch brake gave up full function and I sailed it for years). My keel looks ugly, as it's been patched many times by previous owners. As long as it's intact and watertight shouldn't be a problem.

By the way, those little slots on the side of your boat just above the rub rail are bumper cleats made by Tyler Made. There's a small clip with an oval that you tie the bumper to, then snap them into the clip mounted on the boat. I put these on my 17 and they've worked perfectly for over 15 years.

Finally for the jib cleats, consider changing to a cam cleat before you try sailing. With them, you simply pull the line for the jib and main, make your tack, then pull the lines in and set the sails. Having to move forward to uncleat and cleat will be a pain. Try Defender Marine or one of the others online for a source, or for a bit more money you can get them at West Marine stores.

thanks for the info about the rudder. following pics may give you an idea about the condition of the keel, winch and cable. it seems to be normal but water tightness will be tested later when we take it to water(fingers crossed)
i have checked the taylormade website to see if anything available for those little clips. it seems like they have lots of new products but not much about this clips. maybe i can fabricate something and wedge it. their location is kinda low so fenders doesn't really hang freely so that may not work.


what do you think? am i too optimistic to call it cosmetic damage. wear and tear?


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