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Hello, I'm a forum newbie and have been following many topics about the M series with great interest. As a former power boater ( ~ 25 years experience) I too have come to loathe the typical marine toilet installation. My sailing experience goes back to my youth with several years sailing small boats under 16 feet. I wanna' be a sailor again, but recognize the desirability of being able to power through the many tidal passages in my backyard, the upper Salish Sea and Inside Passages of the BC coastline.

~ ~ ~ Airhead vs Natues Head vs C-Head... discussions all very interesting and thoughtful. In the M series, 'HeadRoom' on the toilet is certainly a practical concern. BUT... horizontal location of the head unit is compromised by the 'tunnel' that runs along the back of the head area. Does anyone know what is behind/under it? Can it be cut into to provide additional clearance to place the back of the unit further towards the topsides? Understandably additional reinforcement of the sole in the head area might be required. Has anyone dared to Dremel into that space to determine what additional placement room might be obtained?

~ ~ ~ supplemental query: Did anyone get to BWY's unveiling of the Tatoo 26 recently? How does the fit, finish and features compare to the recent production models of the M26?

RyeNaught wrote:~ ~ ~ Airhead vs Natues Head vs C-Head... discussions all very interesting and thoughtful. In the M series, 'HeadRoom' on the toilet is certainly a practical concern. BUT... horizontal location of the head unit is compromised by the 'tunnel' that runs along the back of the head area. Does anyone know what is behind/under it? Can it be cut into to provide additional clearance to place the back of the unit further towards the topsides? Understandably additional reinforcement of the sole in the head area might be required. Has anyone dared to Dremel into that space to determine what additional placement room might be obtained?

I understand your reluctance to drill into this area. I have no idea what if anything is under there but with the c-Head you don't have to compromise this area. I am 5'7" tall and my son in law is about 5'11" and we had no problems using it. I could sit down and sit up straight and just rub my head on the cabin top. He makes one that is stepped for the M which is very convenient. My wife and I and our adult son spent a week out on the hook and had no problems with the head.
Go check out his web page

Referencing: 'The 'Tunnel" Here is a reply to this question from Cheryl of Blue Water Yachts which I am posting with her kind permission:

"Hi Ron, you are right that the heads you are talking about are very tall and will limit space above you when sitting down. We have never installed one, but some customers have installed the Air Head with some success.
The liner could be cut away and give you some room. But be careful as the hull is underneath. The area is there to give a flat area to put the head. Under it the hull is curved in to the center of the boat. Look under the v berth to get an idea of what it will look like.

Cheryl "

May I (Ron) add the caution not to be day dreaming while you are 'Dremelling' into that area... Davey Jones may be nearer than you think. Just thinking out loud a bit here... If one were to use the C-head that has the angled/bevelled back wouldn't that give you closer to the 5 gal of storage along with maybe some careful cutting away of part of the tunnel? The C-head has only 15" of height which is more like a traditional marine toilet. Might this be a more user friendly option than either of the other two units? ( I hate banging my head on the overhead while taking care of the paper work)

I installed the C-head. As a matter of fact, the designer references my installation documented in this forum as a good way to do it. Headroom - pretty good. Knee room - never was happy with the porta potty, even less with the C-head. Easily addressed with installing a 1/2 inch shim behind the head door hinges so that the door can open outward. Pretty simple solution without carving out part of the boat.
But if you would rather carve out part of your interior without being certain of the outcome - go for it. I would love to hear how it works out. Better you than me

I guess I did not make myself clear. I am talking about "NOT" cutting away any of the step. C-Head makes a model that is stepped so it sits close to the floor where your feet are and the seat is on the platform. There is no head room loss over the port-a-potty. While it is true that you don't get a full 5 gallons of composting in the toilette, I was trying to point out that 3 adults could use it for at least a week and maybe longer without dumping it. However you might have to dump it a couple of times more during the summer than the other composting toilet but like you I value my head room when doing paperwork. I am a strong believer in not cutting holes in the boat if not necessary.

I came to the same conclusion on the step - that it was just not worth the effort. Instead, I worked with the owner/designer of the C-head to come up with the stepped version for the .

As far as capacity, the 1 gallon milk jug will fill up fairly quickly. Either empty overboard or carry spares. Look at the pictures of my install earlier in this thread and you will see I made a cabinet to carry spare jugs - and peat moss. Honestly, no one has tainted the peat moss yet but I figure that if the bucket gets too full (not expected), I can empty into a double bag trash bag, even with a small tube thru the knot to prevent gas buildup.

Thanks to the owners who have installed C-heads for their additional comments. A further enlightenment has occurred for me by reading through the first part of this reference found at: http://www.scribd.com/doc/162248077/Aug-2013-Newsletter .( Cut & Paste to browser if necessary)

Both the original C-Head and the version have the same functional capacity. I have put my Dremel tooling idea to rest.

Cheers,
Ron

REFERENCES: All three 'heads' are possible to fit in the 26. Please refer to the pages under this topic and authors listed for comparative purposes: C-Head, p4, Author Fireboat52 dated Wed. Feb 13, 2013 Air Head, p5, Author Obelix dated Tues Feb 19, 2013 Natures Head, p6, Author Hugh dated Feb 26, 2013.

Gentlemen, choose your installation and may the composting begin

I considered a C head until I understood the Canadian Law that wont accept them. As I understand the Canadian Marine Law the head must have a holding tank with pump out ability. If I am mistaken please reply.
Our Lords Blessings
Ed
Blowboater1
S/V Sabbath Day's M 26

Quick Google search confirms that Canadian Provincial laws may vary from Federal Law regarding holding tanks. Here are two references for Canadian boaters to personally verify:

Firstly: for the Canadian Federal legislation: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... 2-1582.htm

Secondly: for the Province of British Columbia( country?): http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/nps/NPS ... g_Main.htm .

For current legislation in your home province if other than BC, please refer to your local provincial authority.

In the instance of a disagreement with any local authority regarding the interpretation of these regs, please be courteous. It may be prudent to carry a copy of the complete regs. with you to avoid heated disagreement. As a former Ontario boater I had found that polite cooperation usually lead to a satisfactory outcome of any concern regarding boarding inspections of any nature.

RyeNaught wrote:Quick Google search confirms that Canadian Provincial laws may vary from Federal Law regarding holding tanks. Here are two references for Canadian boaters to personally verify:

Firstly: for the Canadian Federal legislation: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp ... 2-1582.htm

Secondly: for the Province of British Columbia( country?): http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wat/wq/nps/NPS ... g_Main.htm .

For current legislation in your home province if other than BC, please refer to your local provincial authority.

In the instance of a disagreement with any local authority regarding the interpretation of these regs, please be courteous. It may be prudent to carry a copy of the complete regs. with you to avoid heated disagreement. As a former Ontario boater I had found that polite cooperation usually lead to a satisfactory outcome of any concern regarding boarding inspections of any nature.

From what I can glean from those two links, I can't see any reason why any of these composters would not be allowed in Cdn waters fresh or Marine.
Composters are temporary holding tanks (liquid and solid). Both solid and liquid containers are removable. As you say RN courtesy when dealing with authority is always the best policy.
Hugh

Modified inline blower vent installation for C-Head, 26X, for those with tough bowels:





Let the negative pressure caress your @ss and suction away your gas!

Holy sheet.....that blower/sucker is huge....my bigger computer fan is whimpy in comparison....is it designed to run 24/7??My first fan setup was funnel which was connected to the airhead hose which clipped over a solar vent already installed previously but found it only running whilst daylight....doh!....a quick mod to larger fan and hardwired to our system and voila a vent system which works fine for when the toilet is there (we share our airhead with our camper) and also moves air without the funnel hose setup whilst our Mac is resting

By now the followers of this cr@ppy thread know that air circulation is key to the composting system. "Composting" rather. I feel that these are barely composters in that the waste does not truly turn back into loam until more time has passed from the "last use". The poop is combined with drying and bulking agents to help dry it out and make it easier to handle at the final disposal site.
Although the PVC pipe system shown in the picture is effective, my idea was a flat duct system, made of varnished teak plywood that will "somehow" connect to my toilet enclosure. Lol, that "somehow" is the trick. I also am looking at a discharge vent maybe at the top of the mast (??!!??) Dont know yet.
For the brave, here is a brief description of the experiments I have been doing prior to either buying or more likely, building my composting head.

I have been using just a plain 5 gallon bucket with a bag in it in the exact way that I "doo" on the boat. These are called WAG bags or DOODIE bags but I make my own now, since its more economical. I add a bit of head deodorizer and some water absorbent gel that is purchased from the garden shop
Well of course, by separating out the peepee, a wagbag will last for a few uses. So then I used a heavy duty contractor bag, and tried different bulkers. Peatmoss, saw dust, newsaper ect. This poo bucket is not vented except for a window fan exhausting the room outside. The bucket has a plywood lid on it. When I am at work, I leave the lid off. The pee is directed into a bottle and emptied on the shrubbery. (overboard, on the boat)
I had the best luck with paper, because peatmoss encouraged the little flies to spawn gross little maggots. The paper does not, as much. The lid is not airtight either. After settling on paper, I bought a home paper shredder, and now shred all my junk mail. This works great. Its free, and one can use a lot, and it does not smell like moss, or sawdust. Plus its kind of...ironic in a way. The current bag has about ten uses now. Sometimes ofcourse if I am at work, I skip a use, but it generally is used once a day.
So, my bucket has evolve from just tossing overboard, as I did long ago, to using a purpose made "doodie" bag, to making my own bag, to refining the system for multiple uses per bag. currently, if you stand near the bag, there is very little to no smell, and NO sewage smell. This is without much ventilation. I can agitate the contents of the bucket and mix it with the shredded paper by picking up the bucket and shaking it. That is very simple. I feel I could do this for a bout a months worth of uses, and it would be effective given robust ventilation. So now I have a shake and bake system...Points to anyone still reading this
the NEXT thing is, what is sometimes termed "finishing". Letting the waste dry and decompose until it is odorless and harmless. No new waste can be added, of course, and this is where I feel the current toilets fall a bit short. There is no way to finish the waste on the boat unless you just stuff it in a bucket someplace. The manufacturers seem to encourage the dumping of the waste far offshore, or in the forest of the nearest cannibal infested tropical island, or in the dumpster at the yacht club, which ever is easiest. I decided I would think about having another container that was hooked to the ventilation system so it would sit for a month while the in use container was filling. I have not started to build the toilet yet, but I though about side by side containers with a single air inlet and exit. The airflow would pass through both containers. The finishing container would be locked down, but the in use container would of course have a lid that flips up to reveal the seat. The heavy plastic bag would fit inside both containers so you take the in use bag and place it into the finishing side, and forget about it. I dont think it needs to be agitated once it is not being used any longer. Hopefully it will dry out and become lighter and non poopy enough to tie up tightly and toss in the regular trash.
Applying this to the M model comes up against space constraints. The head is really a small area. I will have to think about how to fit it in there, along with a ventilation system that works well but does not appear to be plumbing from a nuclear power plant or submarine.
Ix

Yes "finishing" is the key...when I inquired re another base for my airhead the reply was "why" followed by a price tag I couldn't handle...so will have to find another solution ie 20 litre plastic bucket with lid???Little flies are a pest....are they in the cocopeat?