Honda 50 and E Fuels

KayakDan · Post by **KayakDan** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:01 am

Lately my Honda 50 has been having an issue with holding an idle,and seems to run rich,until it's up over 2k rpm. I spoke to the local Honda Marine dealer who immediately recognized the symptoms."It's an E85 fuel problem-I hear it all day long,and it's not just the Honda motors" Seems the gas/ethanol mix doesn't do well in these motors. He recommended using MDR or Startron fuel stabilizer all the time to fix the problem.
Anyone else found this to be an issue?

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:40 am

Mine always kinda never ran as well as I expected. Very Un-Honda like. Mine never held an idle to save it's life. I doubt mine is running rich, as The thing gets like 2300 miles to a gallon..or so it seems!! What indication do you have that it is running rich? Maybe you can bring it to work and have them put the emmissions sniffer on the exhaust of the outboard and run it to see what the air/fuel is running at.

We took out the demo boat in FLA from Havencraft for a week before we got our boat. It ran identical to our motor (somewhat crappy). Maybe it is the Canadian motor he supplied at the time.

Your 2hp Honda seems to have gas pains the few times I have been out with you in your dingy. Not sure if it is a Honda thing or a fuel thing. My 1.5 evenrude runs like a swiss watch on the new fuel.

Our honda, once warmed up it is OK though. I have used sta-bil when winterizing. Can't say it helps or not. The first tank (left over fuel) of the year seems to run the same as the last one, at least on our 04 Honda 50.

I think that it is just Honda and it's carbruated motors. If it were fuel injected, I would suspect it would run better.

Paul

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:10 am

I doubt you are getting E85 gas (85 percent ethanol, 15 percent gas) unless you are looking for it...does he mean the more likely 10% alcohol blend common at pumps in the winter??

kziadie · Post by **kziadie** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:28 pm

My Honda has never run properly with ANY ethanol added fuels until I started to use Stabil... the fact is that the shelf life of Ethanol treated gasoline in hot weather (i.e. tanks in your cockpit) is measured in days and the Honda carb jets are especially sensitive to this. Just get in the habit of using a stabilizer all the time regardless of how long you think it will take you to empty the tank and you will be fine. The other thing to do is to always disconnect the gas lead from the engine when you are done motoring for the day... I dont quite understand the logic behind it, but it does make a difference and others here have experienced it as well.

Depending on the state of your engine, the above alone may not fix your problems... if not it is time for a carb rebuild. The good news is you shouldnt need to do it again for a long time if you take these precautions.

Kelly

KayakDan · Post by **KayakDan** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:39 pm

As widespread as the problem seems to be,it must be the 10% ethanol he is refering to.
Paul,I ran the motor in a barrel last night,and I'm getting a black carbon film on the water. It used to run squeaky clean until the last few trips out. Also,I pulled the plugs and they are black.
No possibility of getting my Mac anywhere near the dealership-I can barely find a parking space for my Cr-V!
Thinking back,I think his reasoning was correct. Engine ran good early in the year-on the tank that had the Sta-Bil in it. Last 2 tanks didn't have it-now running rough. I'm going to drain the carbs,add the stabilizer,and see if the problem clears up. He says it takes a while.

My 2hp Honda on "Sugar",(dinghy now has a name!) has a mind of it's own,but I'm getting better at what the marine rep calls"The Honda Handshake". It's getting the choke setting "just so" and off it goes. I'll be dumping some stabilizer in it too.

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:26 pm

KayakDan wrote:As widespread as the problem seems to be,it must be the 10% ethanol he is refering to.
Paul,I ran the motor in a barrel last night,and I'm getting a black carbon film on the water. It used to run squeaky clean until the last few trips out. Also,I pulled the plugs and they are black.
No possibility of getting my Mac anywhere near the dealership-I can barely find a parking space for my Cr-V!
Thinking back,I think his reasoning was correct. Engine ran good early in the year-on the tank that had the Sta-Bil in it. Last 2 tanks didn't have it-now running rough. I'm going to drain the carbs,add the stabilizer,and see if the problem clears up. He says it takes a while.

My 2hp Honda on "Sugar",(dinghy now has a name!) has a mind of it's own,but I'm getting better at what the marine rep calls"The Honda Handshake". It's getting the choke setting "just so" and off it goes. I'll be dumping some stabilizer in it too.

MM funny. I will have to see what our plugs look like this year. Pulled them last year and they looked new.

Check the choke on the motor itself. I have, in the past, accidently flipped it to choke and it ran like crap (or did not start at all). It appears to run independently of the console shift/choke. Putting it back and ours was fine again.

That reminds me ... I am low on sta-bil myself!

On the maintence note .. do we know where we can get a fuel filter for our motor (the one in the motor)? I didn't see it at west.

The choke on our 1968 Evenrude can be a bit touchy too. But once it is warmed up..runs like a champ. Plus not a chance anyone will steal it..at least when it is surrounded by other dingies with Honda 2's on them !!

Post by **NiceAft** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:05 pm

My Honda 50 runs quite well. I have put Sta-Bil into the tanks since day one.

This is just a question, so anyone who is ready to jump up and shout, just sit down and hush up

Here's the question............would an item such a Gumout work in an outboard motor? If yes, then it may make sense to pour some into a tank and then open her up to full throttle for a good run? That may help the plugs?

Ray

kziadie · Post by **kziadie** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:34 pm

I have used gumout in outboards and it works... to a point. If sprayed in the carb throats it will help to clean the jets but they are so small on the Honda that they quickly get to a point where gumout wont help any more. As far as the idea of putting it in the tank, I have never tried that but I would have my doubts as the point of a tank treatment is to be a preventitive measure rather than a cleaning measure (which is what gumout is). It might also adversely affect the operating temperature of the engine as you are effectively changing the chemical makeup of the fuel (this is just speculation on my part.)

Kelly

KayakDan · Post by **KayakDan** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:44 pm

Paul,I have a fast idle lever,but I didn't see a choke lever. Where is the choke on the motor? Wondering if your version is the same as mine?

The fuel filter seems to be a closely guarded secret. Can't find any listing for the BF50 motor. Apparently it's only available from a Honda Marine dealer I couldn't match it to any automotive applications.
I have plenty of oil filters though!

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:45 pm

should be on the front , port side of the motor just under the cover. At least that is where it is on my motor. You could play with the choke lever on the carbs and follow it to the choke lever (if you have one)

I have, from time to time, hit it and engaged it!

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:50 pm

Is there an automatic choke version of the motor???

Post by **NiceAft** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:25 pm

Dan,

As you face the stern of the boat, looking at the motor, the choke should be facing you, low on the starboard side. Make certain it is pushed all the way in.

Ray

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:29 am

Plus not a chance anyone will steal it..at least when it is surrounded by other dingies with Honda 2's on them !!

Another theft deterrent is that spinning flywheel of death....

If Seagulls get stolen you follow the smoke to the perp on water, the transmission oil drip on land..

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:42 am

KayakDan wrote: The fuel filter seems to be a closely guarded secret. Can't find any listing for the BF50 motor. Apparently it's only available from a Honda Marine dealer I couldn't match it to any automotive applications.
I have plenty of oil filters though!

The part# is 16900-SA5-004. I found it online for like $6 from a few sources

KayakDan · Post by **KayakDan** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:39 am

Paul,I can get that part number. I will order one,and make sure it's correct.If it is,I'll order another one for you

You might want an extra for your 1982 Accord!

BTW,the dealer also strongly reccommended putting a Racor water seperator in the system. About $30-35 most places. After my engine started running crappy in the middle of 7ft seas in Maine(I think it picked up water in the bottom of the tank) I will be adding one. Seems the new fuels with ethanol pull a lot of water from the atmosphere,and fuel tanks with open vents build condensation.

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Honda 50 and E Fuels

Honda 50 and E Fuels