Hi all! New to this forum and have never owned a sailboat before. I have been looking at a 26X or M and was wondering how appropriate this vessel would be for spending a week or two aboard with the family for vacations? Would it need to be heavily modified?
How long can the batteries last with common electrical items attached, and if I add more, how much do I need to upgrade the batteries? Do they recharge by plugging in to shore power?
Looking forward to any advice you can give me!
Tom
ModEdit: Battery-related vectors split to new thread, Batteries & Extended Cruising ~fc
Extended Cruising - 26X or M?
extended trips
We have a mac 26x and have done several extended trips for two weeks at a time. On the road we get some funny comments and looks when we camp in the boat. We have spent 2 weeks on Kentucky lake, 2 weeks on Texhoma more than once, 10 days down the Arkansas river. Plenty of room for me and the wife.
Batteries were kept up with a solor charger. Have a dual batter system that I designed, real cheap but it works.. Add extra memory foam to the V berth. Use 5day coolers (2) for food and drinks. Some times it might be 6 days without touching ground. Great times.
Batteries were kept up with a solor charger. Have a dual batter system that I designed, real cheap but it works.. Add extra memory foam to the V berth. Use 5day coolers (2) for food and drinks. Some times it might be 6 days without touching ground. Great times.
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Graham Carr
- First Officer
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:19 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Sedro-Woolley WA, 2002 26X , Mercury 50hp 4 Stroke Bigfoot "Pauka2"
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Frank C
Hmmmm. Is that the Same Eric who asked the Same Question, not more than six months ago??eric3a wrote: . . . For most families who like camping I think the 26 (M or X) is an excellent choice.
And the Same Eric who (still) thinks it's the ugliest boat on the planet?
Hmmm . . . .
(Welcome ab'd, Eric~!)-
James V
- Admiral
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:33 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Key West, Fl USA, 26M 06, Merc 50hp BF "LYNX"
It depends on how close you are and what you want and can live without. If your family can spend that much time camping in a one room tent then you should be fine.
The stock battery can take about 22 amps hours before it needs to be recharged.
Setting up the boat depends on what you want to do. People do it in less and more.
The stock battery can take about 22 amps hours before it needs to be recharged.
Setting up the boat depends on what you want to do. People do it in less and more.
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beene
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2546
- Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:31 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Ontario Canada, '07 26M, Merc 75 4s PEGASUS
Hi Tom and welcome.
My family loves our Mac. We have been camping for decades and would say that using the Mac for multi overnight trips is the same thing. If you can handle camping in a 26 foot tailer, then you will love the Mac. If you our someone in your family NEEDS to stay at the Ritz.... then they will probably not like living aboard the Mac for a few days.
Need extra power on the water, get a generator. Need a shower, install one or plan to go ashore at various stops to have one. Need to get off the boat for a break from the water, can't imagine why since I am always doing the opposite, again... include stops in your travel plans along the way.
Good luck with whatever you decide, X M both great and loads of family fun.
G
My family loves our Mac. We have been camping for decades and would say that using the Mac for multi overnight trips is the same thing. If you can handle camping in a 26 foot tailer, then you will love the Mac. If you our someone in your family NEEDS to stay at the Ritz.... then they will probably not like living aboard the Mac for a few days.
Need extra power on the water, get a generator. Need a shower, install one or plan to go ashore at various stops to have one. Need to get off the boat for a break from the water, can't imagine why since I am always doing the opposite, again... include stops in your travel plans along the way.
Good luck with whatever you decide, X M both great and loads of family fun.
G
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
A stock X or M would be hard to spend very long on at all with a family. They just don't come with even all the basics let alone the nice to have stuff. Modified appropriately, but not excessively you can easily spend weeks on the boat with your family. Some might say I have more mods than most, but they sure make things more comfortable.
http://www.ddunn.org/Mods.htm
In general you will run out of or fill up things in the following order.
(This list is based on spending the last 6 years out cruising with my family of 5)
1st to go, Head holding capacity. If you have the small porta pottie tank don't plan on much more than a night. If you have the 5 - 6 gallon tank models as we always have had you can get 3 - 4 days with a family. Of course at a dock or park with shore side facilities this isn't an issue. You can almost always find a place to empty the potty ashore.
2nd to go, Water. We carry 10 gallons and have a pressure water system so you can go through more quicker than those with hand pumps. 10 gallons will last us 4 - 6 days. Add a bigger tank and you get more time but we've never found it necessary. It's been rare to have both 5 gallon tanks empty before reaching a place to refill. It's one of the reasons I'm a fan of portable tanks, not built in. Even at anchor I can take a tank into a park in the dinghy and refill it.
A close third to go, Ice. We also get 4 - 6 days from the ice in our cooler. It is a 5 day cooler. The stock cooler that came with the boat was junk and wouldn't even last 2 days.
Last to go, battery power. In all our years out we have never even come close to running out of power. We're not misers, but don't use any big loads like refrigeration or AC. Even when we only had two small 65Ah 12v batteries in parallel we never found power to be an issue. I do have a good amp hour gauge that let's me know the charge state and take appropriate actions if required, but it has never been required.
Our longest trip out with our family of 5 is 23 days.
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook42.htm
We regularly go out for 1 - 2 weeks. Here's our logbook.
http://www.ddunn.org/Boating.htm
The key is really in the planning. In general we plan a stop by a marina for a day or two every 2 - 4 days. On the 23 day trip we even spend 5 nights ashore in rented cabins to let everyone decompress from the more cramped quarters of the boat.
The marina stops let us top up and empty out everything as needed and gives everyone a break from the "anchored out at the park" stops. Not only do we get shoreside facilities for showers, water, potty dump, gas, and AC power to recharge, but we get groceries, restaurants, and in general more room for everyone to roam when tied up at the dock. Alternating this way between nights out and nights at marina's you can go out with the family for a really long time without any problems.
The other #1 key to an enjoyable trip is organization. Our motto is a place for everything and everything in it's place. Constantly moving things over and over again to go from activity to activity get's really old fast. Come up with a storage plan for everything (I mean everything, not just most things) and then use it.
http://www.ddunn.org/storage.htm
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a ACD about storage, but at least once a day we take time to put everything back where it goes. During a long trip this will let your family keep it's sanity and make living a small space much easier.
The normal routine is my wife takes the kids and dogs to shore (via dock or dinghy) while I do the tiddying up chores and then of course take a nap. Like wise at some point each day I have the kids and dogs so she can get time alone to rest. Even better these last few years as the kids get older we are getting time when they have the dogs and go away so we both get time to rest together. Get a good pair of FRS/GPRS radios and don't be shy about turning the kids loose in the dinghy to go to that deserted island alone.
http://www.ddunn.org/Mods.htm
In general you will run out of or fill up things in the following order.
(This list is based on spending the last 6 years out cruising with my family of 5)
1st to go, Head holding capacity. If you have the small porta pottie tank don't plan on much more than a night. If you have the 5 - 6 gallon tank models as we always have had you can get 3 - 4 days with a family. Of course at a dock or park with shore side facilities this isn't an issue. You can almost always find a place to empty the potty ashore.
2nd to go, Water. We carry 10 gallons and have a pressure water system so you can go through more quicker than those with hand pumps. 10 gallons will last us 4 - 6 days. Add a bigger tank and you get more time but we've never found it necessary. It's been rare to have both 5 gallon tanks empty before reaching a place to refill. It's one of the reasons I'm a fan of portable tanks, not built in. Even at anchor I can take a tank into a park in the dinghy and refill it.
A close third to go, Ice. We also get 4 - 6 days from the ice in our cooler. It is a 5 day cooler. The stock cooler that came with the boat was junk and wouldn't even last 2 days.
Last to go, battery power. In all our years out we have never even come close to running out of power. We're not misers, but don't use any big loads like refrigeration or AC. Even when we only had two small 65Ah 12v batteries in parallel we never found power to be an issue. I do have a good amp hour gauge that let's me know the charge state and take appropriate actions if required, but it has never been required.
Our longest trip out with our family of 5 is 23 days.
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook42.htm
We regularly go out for 1 - 2 weeks. Here's our logbook.
http://www.ddunn.org/Boating.htm
The key is really in the planning. In general we plan a stop by a marina for a day or two every 2 - 4 days. On the 23 day trip we even spend 5 nights ashore in rented cabins to let everyone decompress from the more cramped quarters of the boat.
The marina stops let us top up and empty out everything as needed and gives everyone a break from the "anchored out at the park" stops. Not only do we get shoreside facilities for showers, water, potty dump, gas, and AC power to recharge, but we get groceries, restaurants, and in general more room for everyone to roam when tied up at the dock. Alternating this way between nights out and nights at marina's you can go out with the family for a really long time without any problems.
The other #1 key to an enjoyable trip is organization. Our motto is a place for everything and everything in it's place. Constantly moving things over and over again to go from activity to activity get's really old fast. Come up with a storage plan for everything (I mean everything, not just most things) and then use it.
http://www.ddunn.org/storage.htm
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a ACD about storage, but at least once a day we take time to put everything back where it goes. During a long trip this will let your family keep it's sanity and make living a small space much easier.
The normal routine is my wife takes the kids and dogs to shore (via dock or dinghy) while I do the tiddying up chores and then of course take a nap. Like wise at some point each day I have the kids and dogs so she can get time alone to rest. Even better these last few years as the kids get older we are getting time when they have the dogs and go away so we both get time to rest together. Get a good pair of FRS/GPRS radios and don't be shy about turning the kids loose in the dinghy to go to that deserted island alone.
Relative to cruising, Macs come almost completely stripped, except for cushions on the berths (beds) and one or two sinks, each with a hand-pump faucet and a 5 gallon collapsible water jug.
As a couple of empty nesters, we could get by with 10 gallons of water for 4 nights out, using the Mac's hand pump faucets. That's wasn't for drinking, except for coffee. With pressure water on the C-18, we use double that, but could probably use a little less if more careful.
Most previously-owned Macs have an optional dealer-installed portable toilet, and it's usually a 2.8 gallon model, either Thetford Porta-Potty or Sealand Sanipottie. That's good for us for 2 nights if I do #1 in it, but if I use a jug for #1, we can double that (I drink a lot). You can also get 5.2 gallon or larger models (won't fit in the 2005-later 26M), but the bottom can get heavy to carry and awkward to dump. As an alternative, you might consider a spare 2.8 gallon bottom. If you'll be going to Ontario across Lake Erie, you'll need a potty plumbed with a vent and pump-out fitting on the deck. Unplumbed portable toilets are illegal there. [edit to add] That includes Pelee Island.
Many, if not most, Macs have an optional dealer-installed Origo single-burner alcohol stove. We liked ours and denatured alcohol is easy to find. Some even have a two-burner. The canister holds a quart and that lasted us for longer than a weeks worth of days. We now use a portable butane stove on the C-18 and one fuel can lasts about as long. Not as easy to find as alcohol though.
Some extended cruisers don't use ice or refrigeration. There's lots of food that doesn't require it. Still, we like our cold drinks. We had two coolers in the 26X, one under the aft dinette seat for food, and a 50-quart Igloo Ice Cube on top of the aft galley seat for drinks (Duane's idea).
Duane is right about the cheap 48-quart Coleman cooler, a Mac option for under the aft dinette seat in the 26X. The 50-quart Cube is also a 3-day cooler and not much better. Neither hold cube ice more than a couple of days. Not an issue if you frequently stop in marinas. We used frozen half-gallon milk jugs of water (Don T's advice) and they held out for four overnights. Block ice just lasts longer than cubed.
[edit to add] Duane's idea of using a hand bilge pump to empty water from the coolers into the galley sink worked great.
Electricity use is hugely variable. With a single Group 24 deep-cycle used for both house use and outboard starting (on a Mac, not on our C-18's 4HP kicker), you have about 35-40 amp-hours (half the battery capacity) to play with. Discharge below 50% and you won't get much life from the battery(s). If you use the battery(s) for both house and starting, carrying a jump start pack.
The Mac cabin lights each draw 1.5 amps, so if you use 2 for 3 hours each evening, that's 1.5 x 2 x 3 = 9 amp-hours per evening. We used them as little as possible and now have LED cabin lights in the C-18. Not nearly as effective as incandescent, but adequate in the smaller C-18, especially the red ones.
The Mac navigation lights are about 0.75 amps each, so if you sail for two hours after dark, that's 3 amp-hours. If you motor, you need to add the steaming light to that usage, but of course the outboard alternator, not the batteries, is powering it and the nav lights.
The Mac doesn't come with an anchor light, but if you add a 10 watt one, that's about 0.75A x 10 hours or 7.5 amp-hours per evening. An LED one uses about 1/4 that much. Just make sure it's certified to comply with USCG 2 nautical mile visibility standards.
A stereo can use 1-2 amps, so 6 hours of music can use 6-12 amp-hours per day. A fixed VHF radio typically uses 0.5 amps on standby, 1.0 amps on receive, and 5 amps when transmitting. A handheld uses much less. IIRC, our fixed GPS/Sounder used 0.25 amps. Not sure about handheld. [edit to add] A cooler-sized 3.5 cubic foot dual-voltage Engel refrigerator can use 17-20 amp-hours every 24 hours.
Macs do not come with a shorepower battery charger. Previous owners may have added one, or you can. You can also recharge the battery(s) by motoring (with a large enough motor), but not as quickly as with a good 3-stage shorepower charger.
Hope this helps,
--
Moe
Note: there were some electricity/battery-related posts below this post, that the mods split off into a new thread Batteries & Extended Cruising. Just for future reference. -- Moe
As a couple of empty nesters, we could get by with 10 gallons of water for 4 nights out, using the Mac's hand pump faucets. That's wasn't for drinking, except for coffee. With pressure water on the C-18, we use double that, but could probably use a little less if more careful.
Most previously-owned Macs have an optional dealer-installed portable toilet, and it's usually a 2.8 gallon model, either Thetford Porta-Potty or Sealand Sanipottie. That's good for us for 2 nights if I do #1 in it, but if I use a jug for #1, we can double that (I drink a lot). You can also get 5.2 gallon or larger models (won't fit in the 2005-later 26M), but the bottom can get heavy to carry and awkward to dump. As an alternative, you might consider a spare 2.8 gallon bottom. If you'll be going to Ontario across Lake Erie, you'll need a potty plumbed with a vent and pump-out fitting on the deck. Unplumbed portable toilets are illegal there. [edit to add] That includes Pelee Island.
Many, if not most, Macs have an optional dealer-installed Origo single-burner alcohol stove. We liked ours and denatured alcohol is easy to find. Some even have a two-burner. The canister holds a quart and that lasted us for longer than a weeks worth of days. We now use a portable butane stove on the C-18 and one fuel can lasts about as long. Not as easy to find as alcohol though.
Some extended cruisers don't use ice or refrigeration. There's lots of food that doesn't require it. Still, we like our cold drinks. We had two coolers in the 26X, one under the aft dinette seat for food, and a 50-quart Igloo Ice Cube on top of the aft galley seat for drinks (Duane's idea).
Duane is right about the cheap 48-quart Coleman cooler, a Mac option for under the aft dinette seat in the 26X. The 50-quart Cube is also a 3-day cooler and not much better. Neither hold cube ice more than a couple of days. Not an issue if you frequently stop in marinas. We used frozen half-gallon milk jugs of water (Don T's advice) and they held out for four overnights. Block ice just lasts longer than cubed.
[edit to add] Duane's idea of using a hand bilge pump to empty water from the coolers into the galley sink worked great.
Electricity use is hugely variable. With a single Group 24 deep-cycle used for both house use and outboard starting (on a Mac, not on our C-18's 4HP kicker), you have about 35-40 amp-hours (half the battery capacity) to play with. Discharge below 50% and you won't get much life from the battery(s). If you use the battery(s) for both house and starting, carrying a jump start pack.
The Mac cabin lights each draw 1.5 amps, so if you use 2 for 3 hours each evening, that's 1.5 x 2 x 3 = 9 amp-hours per evening. We used them as little as possible and now have LED cabin lights in the C-18. Not nearly as effective as incandescent, but adequate in the smaller C-18, especially the red ones.
The Mac navigation lights are about 0.75 amps each, so if you sail for two hours after dark, that's 3 amp-hours. If you motor, you need to add the steaming light to that usage, but of course the outboard alternator, not the batteries, is powering it and the nav lights.
The Mac doesn't come with an anchor light, but if you add a 10 watt one, that's about 0.75A x 10 hours or 7.5 amp-hours per evening. An LED one uses about 1/4 that much. Just make sure it's certified to comply with USCG 2 nautical mile visibility standards.
A stereo can use 1-2 amps, so 6 hours of music can use 6-12 amp-hours per day. A fixed VHF radio typically uses 0.5 amps on standby, 1.0 amps on receive, and 5 amps when transmitting. A handheld uses much less. IIRC, our fixed GPS/Sounder used 0.25 amps. Not sure about handheld. [edit to add] A cooler-sized 3.5 cubic foot dual-voltage Engel refrigerator can use 17-20 amp-hours every 24 hours.
Macs do not come with a shorepower battery charger. Previous owners may have added one, or you can. You can also recharge the battery(s) by motoring (with a large enough motor), but not as quickly as with a good 3-stage shorepower charger.
Hope this helps,
--
Moe
Note: there were some electricity/battery-related posts below this post, that the mods split off into a new thread Batteries & Extended Cruising. Just for future reference. -- Moe
Last edited by Moe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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LOUIS B HOLUB
- Admiral
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: 1999 Mac-X, Nissan 50 HP, Kemah, TX, "Holub Boat"
Re: 26X or M for extended cruise?
The Mac is fine for 2 folks. If more are on board, one must begin to cut back on "carry on stuff". Leave the non essentials home. Otherwise, its a comfortable boat. We have the Mac-X. The Mac-M is a little more spacious in my opinion. I think both are fine boats for camping, motoring, sailing, fishing, or just spending a day on the water on the hook.piratetom wrote: Looking forward to any advice you can give me!
Safety of the Mac is a plus--it will float when flooded.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
I would also differ with those that feel the X is only big enough for a couple when cruising. Our family of 5, my wife and I, Sam (16), Nick (12), and Mike (9), along with our two small dogs are quite comfortable on board. There is more than enough space on board for us all to sleep, play, eat, and relax. Our full cockpit enclosure is a big part of this however, it gives us two rooms to work with. The boys can be watching a movie below while Dawn and I relax in the cockpit with our new lounge chairs even if it is pouring rain.
There are many pictures of the interior of our boat at my web site, but I think you will agree even with all the extra stuff we bring along it in not cluttered at all. In fact with the new carpet, cushion covers and curtains it it feels even more spacious and inviting that ever before. This picture isn't cleaned up for 'Better Homes and Gardens', it is shot of the cabin as it is loaded with all our stuff and it looks this way after each days usual round of putting things left out away.
We also make some simple but important efforts at privacy for sleeping. While the panels are just fabric they make all the difference in the world in the perception of space and privacy.
With Dawn and I in the extended vee berth cabin, Mike and Sam in the private aft berth cabins (it is divided down the center by the boys duffel bags) and Nick in the cockpit cabin we all have our space at night. (Sometimes if the weather is cold Nick will join the other two boys in the aft berth. The space there is bigger than the floor of our 3 man campling tent.)
A Mac can easily take a large family cruising. That's the beauty of this boat. It's the lowest cost, most spacious, trailerable power or sail boat you can find on the market. Keeping it on the trailer at your house saves you ton's of money in moorage fees. Yet when you are out there cruising in your low cost boat you have the same spectacular 360 degree view water front cabin that all the big expensive boats have.
There are many pictures of the interior of our boat at my web site, but I think you will agree even with all the extra stuff we bring along it in not cluttered at all. In fact with the new carpet, cushion covers and curtains it it feels even more spacious and inviting that ever before. This picture isn't cleaned up for 'Better Homes and Gardens', it is shot of the cabin as it is loaded with all our stuff and it looks this way after each days usual round of putting things left out away.
We also make some simple but important efforts at privacy for sleeping. While the panels are just fabric they make all the difference in the world in the perception of space and privacy.
With Dawn and I in the extended vee berth cabin, Mike and Sam in the private aft berth cabins (it is divided down the center by the boys duffel bags) and Nick in the cockpit cabin we all have our space at night. (Sometimes if the weather is cold Nick will join the other two boys in the aft berth. The space there is bigger than the floor of our 3 man campling tent.)
A Mac can easily take a large family cruising. That's the beauty of this boat. It's the lowest cost, most spacious, trailerable power or sail boat you can find on the market. Keeping it on the trailer at your house saves you ton's of money in moorage fees. Yet when you are out there cruising in your low cost boat you have the same spectacular 360 degree view water front cabin that all the big expensive boats have.
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Frank C
For all who are familiar with this great idea . . . setting a Cooler Cube on the 26X's aft galley seat . . .Moe wrote: . . . Some extended cruisers don't use ice or refrigeration. There's lots of food that doesn't require it. Still, we like our cold drinks. We had two coolers in the 26X, one under the aft dinette seat for food, and a 50-quart Igloo Ice Cube on top of the aft galley seat for drinks (Duane's idea) . . .
Check out Igloo's MaxCold 5-day 70-qt. cooler. It fits perfectly on the aft galley seat. Importantly, it has the extra capacity to carry extra ice and it's a MaxCold 5-day model . . . Still available in Costco @ $40.
EditoAdd: forgot to mention, it's wheeled with a collapsing luggage handle.
Last edited by Frank C on Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Frank, that should be a great match for your 70 quart, 5-day cooler under the aft dinette seat !
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Moe
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Moe